[Setup] Not Sure What to Call It

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[Setup] Not Sure What to Call It

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:32 pm

Post by Virtuoso »

Setup
  • 1 Town Cop (who gets an N0 report on a random town)
  • 1 Town Jailkeeper
  • 1 Town Universal Backup
  • 7 Vanilla Townies
  • 1 Mafia JOAT (1-x Strongman, 1-x Rolecop, 1-x Roleblocker)
  • 2 Mafia Goons
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:42 am

Post by Creature »

4 confirmed town by Day 1 seems OP.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:58 am

Post by callforjudgement »

Scum's best response to a town massclaim is to strongman-kill the cop N1, roleblock the Universal Backup=Cop N2 (while regular-killing the JK), and regular-kill the Universal Backup=Cop N3. This prevents the town making any further uses of their power roles, and 4 Innocent Child : 6 Vanilla Townie : 3 Mafia Goon is close to balanced (although not fun to play).

I'm pretty sure this is broken for town by hypoclaim, though (i.e. each player states a strong townread on D1, for most townies it's just a genuine read, but the Cop uses this to breadcrumb their N0 result in a way that everyone can unambiguously determine what it was), together with claiming at L-1. Town can make almost as efficient as use of claim-to-confirm as if they'd massclaimed, whereas scum have much less information on how to stop the town power roles getting even confirmations.
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:10 pm

Post by Lycanfire »

This seems so broken in favor of town that I was coming up with the most efficient way to do it. I was thinking the cop should claim regardless day 1, and that drawing out the strongman on the IC cop is worthwhile. If strongman is used, town plays standard thereafter. If the inno is killed I was considering proceeding with a day 2 mass claim.

Hypoclaim averts this scenario, but I'm not exactly sure if that's better either.

Frankly, for scum to have any chance strongman should bypass the backup.
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:22 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

N0 random innos are a MU thing, they're probably not going to be a thing here
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:00 am

Post by acidphoenix »

this would still be brokenly townsided if you removed the backup or the jailkeeper 100%

not sure about removing the cop but i suspect it, again, would be
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:04 pm

Post by mhsmith0 »

Eh, MS towns do way worse than MU towns, so

10 v3
n0 cop
9 vts

vs 3 goons

is probably gonna be wolfsided here (consensus is it's reasonably close to balanced on MU), so probably you can get away with cop + backup or cop + jailkeeper against some scum power.

I do agree about it being kind of ugly though
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:01 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 2, callforjudgement wrote:Scum's best response to a town massclaim is to strongman-kill the cop N1, roleblock the Universal Backup=Cop N2 (while regular-killing the JK), and regular-kill the Universal Backup=Cop N3. This prevents the town making any further uses of their power roles, and 4 Innocent Child : 6 Vanilla Townie : 3 Mafia Goon is close to balanced (although not fun to play).

I'm pretty sure this is broken for town by hypoclaim, though (i.e. each player states a strong townread on D1, for most townies it's just a genuine read, but the Cop uses this to breadcrumb their N0 result in a way that everyone can unambiguously determine what it was), together with claiming at L-1. Town can make almost as efficient as use of claim-to-confirm as if they'd massclaimed, whereas scum have much less information on how to stop the town power roles getting even confirmations.
The likelihood of this exact type of situation happening is really the issue. Hypoclaim is important. Claim if any of the 4 confirmables are run up.

I agree that it's balanced, but it's just not interesting. Feels like it'd work better closed. As an open, it basically requires certain strategies on the part of town (hypoclaim) and scum (counterclaims) and that's not really fun to play.

D1 Mafia JOAT lynch also ruins the game.
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