[Setup] Double Investigation

[Not Known 15]

Double Investigation

4 Vanilla Townies

2 Mafia Goons

Compulsive kills, special mechanic.
Mechanic:If town is not in EXLO, instead of normal execution, players vote for two people to be investigated at night. Those can be still killed at night.
The next day, investigated Mafia turns up dead, while investigated town turns up alive, unless killed by the Mafia(making them IC's). At night(when there was an investigation) Mafia must choose an investigation target to kill(if the Mafia are both selected Day 1 they are instantly endgamed).
If town is in EXLO, they execute normally.(In the case of a normal EXLO Day 2 ending with a mafia execution the remaining goon has to kill anyone of their choice(but they will probably prefer to kill the innocent town)
Nights are skipped if Mafia was investigated and the investigated town player dies.

EV(random execution, standard killing)=53,33333...% town victory

Vanilla Townie

You are a Vanilla Townie.

You have no active abilities.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Mafia Goon

You are a Mafia Goon, alongside with

NAME

You have a factional PT

HERE

.

At night, one member of your faction may kill an opposing player. If one Mafia and one Townie have been investigated, the townie is auto-killed and the night is skipped.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

[yessiree]

Nice setup.

What are your thoughts on disabling IC mechanics when there is 1 mafia goon remaining? (In the case of 3:1 and 2Ts are chosen)

it'll slightly bring down the EV for town victory to 48.88...%

[Not Known 15]

Nice setup.

What are your thoughts on disabling IC mechanics when there is 1 mafia goon remaining? (In the case of 3:1 and 2Ts are chosen)

it'll slightly bring down the EV for town victory to 48.88...%

Not possible because that one is automatic(2 people chosen, play continues-> both innocent)

[Not Known 15]

Because of the slightly positive town EV I could give Mafia Daychat. What do you all think about that?

[yessiree]

Nice setup.

What are your thoughts on disabling IC mechanics when there is 1 mafia goon remaining? (In the case of 3:1 and 2Ts are chosen)

it'll slightly bring down the EV for town victory to 48.88...%

Not possible because that one is automatic(2 people chosen, play continues-> both innocent)

doesn't mafia gets to kill one, and the other turns into IC?

[mith]

They turn IC because they aren’t dead - if they were Mafia, the game would be over.

[mith]

(Just having the “pick two, Mafia have to kill one” without confirming the other may be intetesting as well, in a larger setup.)

[yessiree]

They turn IC because they aren’t dead - if they were Mafia, the game would be over.

Mafia has to kill from investigation targets. 3:1 with 2 towns voted turns into 1:1:1

[Not Known 15]

They turn IC because they aren’t dead - if they were Mafia, the game would be over.

Mafia has to kill from investigation targets. 3:1 with 2 towns voted turns into 1:1:1

Correct. The EV for town going into 3:1 is 75% due to this.
The EV for town going into 3v2(even with one IC) is, however, extremely low, which causes the total EV to be only slightly town favoured.
However, all town needs to agree with a pairing including mafia if those don't bus.

[yessiree]

Yes, so going back to my original suggestion - if you disallow ICs to be created when there is exactly one scum remaining, it will slightly decrease the RV for town victory (instead of 1:1:1 it becomes 2:1)

crunching numbers for the 4:2 setup, the RV for town drops to 48.88% from 53.33% Slight decrease. But the more important thing is that it will make LYLO more interesting and allows for more scum play.

[Not Known 15]

This??

Double Investigation 2.0

4 Vanilla Townies

2 Mafia Goons

Compulsive kills, special mechanic.
Mechanic:If town is not in LYLO, instead of normal lynching, players vote for as many people to be investigated at night as there are Mafia alive. Those can be still killed at night.
The next day, investigated Mafia turns up dead, while investigated town turns up alive(making them IC's). At night(when there was an investigation) Mafia must choose an investigation target to kill(if the Mafia are both selected Day 1 they are instantly endgamed).
If town is in LYLO, they lynch normally.(In the case of a normal LYLO Day 2 ending with a mafia lynch the remaining goon has to kill anyone of their choice(but they will probably prefer to kill the innocent town)

EV(random lynching, standard killing)=53,33333...% town victory

EV(random lynching, standard killing)=40% town victory
That does not look better. Town win rate drops a lot.

[yessiree]

Hmmm. Dunno why we're getting different numbers

I'm going to calculate the RV for mafia since it's easier

4:2 => 2 town chosen 2/5 => 2:2:1 LYLO => town lynch 1/2 = [1/5]
4:2 => 2 town chosen 2/5 => 2:2:1 LYLO => scum lynch 1/2, mafia kills IC => 2:1 => town lynch 2/3 = [2/15]
4:2 => 1 town 1 scum chosen 8/15 => 3:1 => 2 town chosen 1/2 => *no IC generation, mafia kills one, results in* 2:1 => town lynch 2/3 = [8/45]

1/5 + 2/15 + 8/45 = 0.511...

so the RV for town is 1 - 0.511... = 48.88%

[Not Known 15]

Hmmm. Dunno why we're getting different numbers

I'm going to calculate the RV for mafia since it's easier

4:2 => 2 town chosen 2/5 => 2:2:1 LYLO => town lynch 1/2 = [1/5]
4:2 => 2 town chosen 2/5 => 2:2:1 LYLO => scum lynch 1/2, mafia kills IC => 2:1 => town lynch 2/3 = [2/15]
4:2 => 1 town 1 scum chosen 8/15 => 3:1 => 2 town chosen 1/2 => *no IC generation, mafia kills one, results in* 2:1 => town lynch 2/3 = [8/45]

1/5 + 2/15 + 8/45 = 0.511...

so the RV for town is 1 - 0.511... = 48.88%

What you are suggesting is

impossible

. mith already told you why.

[yessiree]

which part is impossible? All 3 scenarios are perfectly valid given the current ruleset?

[yessiree]

The next day, investigated Mafia turns up dead, while

investigated town turns up alive(making them IC's)

. At night(when there was an investigation)

Mafia must choose an investigation target to kill

I'm assuming this part is causing all the confusion.

Assuming the kill is compulsive, both should turn up dead given 1 town 1 scum investigation targets

[Gamma Emerald]

I recall a setup where town dictates who the mafia can kill being made in the past

[mith]

which part is impossible? All 3 scenarios are perfectly valid given the current ruleset?

If Mafia is chosen, they die and town wins immediately. Since that didn't happen, 2 Town must have been chosen, and whichever one survives is confirmed innocent.

No one in this setup is having their role changed to IC. They are just being confirmed innocent by not dying (which has the same effect).

[Mathdino]

I like this setup a lot and would absolutely play it. Town's ability to control the NK should slightly increase town EV in practice.