[SETUP] Factory

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
ManateeDude
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Post Post #0  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:40 pm

This is a setup that I thought up off the top of my head. Not sure if its balanced or even a good concept, but here goes.

Setup 1Day Inventor Cop (Can act N0)
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Goon
Goon


Mafia are given a Rolecop ability if they receive the Cop.
Last edited by ManateeDude on Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Invisibility
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Post Post #1  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:06 pm

i think that the cop set up is a little townsided
giving the scum rolecop isnt that useful when the only thing that they're looking for is the inventor
otherwise its either a cop out of the many or a vanilla townie that isnt even accurate because it can change

roleblocker im not sure about balance but it might create really weird roleblocker vs roleblocker interactions which are a mess to deal with
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BulletNLynchproof
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Post Post #2  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:13 pm

The problem with both setups is that there is a decent chance that the inventor can die just by pure luck, making this mountainous by accident

EDIT:
Actually this game is really scumsided because the results are delayed. In the first game you can get a result by Day 3 earliest, because the invention has to be passed out before the cop is used.
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ManateeDude
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Post Post #3  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:03 am

In post 2, BulletNLynchproof wrote:The problem with both setups is that there is a decent chance that the inventor can die just by pure luck, making this mountainous by accident

EDIT:
Actually this game is really scumsided because the results are delayed. In the first game you can get a result by Day 3 earliest, because the invention has to be passed out before the cop is used.

Cops can die by pure luck as well?

I could change Inventor to be a day ability. That fixes it.

AnonymousGhost
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Post Post #4  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:40 pm

My gut says that this could be easily broken if it's the first setup.

Assuming that town becomes an alignment cop, Mafia have two options: kill someone who they think will be the cop, or try to outright kill the Cop Inventor.

I think this may be a problem late game, especially if a mass claim occurs.

Let's say A, B, and C became alignment Cops and checked D, E, and F. This could possibly mean you have 6 confirmed townies because the Inventor (if they're alive when mass claim comes) can confirm that they targeted those people, who the confirm that they targeted the other people.

It's like the Mafia has to deal with 6 cops rather than just one at a time.

To be honest, I'd probably change the Alignment/Role Cop to a Vanilla Cop or Neapolitan for both alignments. Don't make the invention change based on alignment. This way it's a little more ambiguous concerning results. As always, Vanilla Cop favors scum and Neapolitan favors town.
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AnonymousGhost
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Post Post #5  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:43 pm

Actually, I'd probably make the Inventor restricted somehow. Make them a 2-Shot or add another type of modifier onto their role card, such as Indecisive.

I don't think scum could be screwed over by getting a role cop over the alignment cop, but I think it's towing the line of being guilty via mechanics.
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ManateeDude
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Post Post #6  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:16 pm

First setup is broken.
/thread

implosion
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Post Post #7  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:58 am

I disagree that th first setup is broken for town, pretty strongly. That scenario with six confirmed townies assumes that people claiming cop results are confirmed town, which is wrong. They’ll get rolecop shots but will just claim cop results. It also assumes none of the cops or cop targets die at night which will generally be wrong. Bnl’s edit is correct; this setup is scumsided because the first useful info town gets comes on day three, at which point it may already be lylo and that information will at best set up a 1v1, and at worst not exist because of the person with the cop shot dying. I don’t know if it’s drastically scumsided though.

The idea of switching things to day is good. I think there’s at least a kernel of an interesting micro here.

callforjudgement
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Post Post #8  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:15 pm

The first setup should be fairly balanced, probably a little townsided, if the Inventor (Cop) gets to act on Night 0 (meaning that the first investigation takes place Night 1 and the result is available Day 2). It's similar to a Cop + 6 v 2 setup, which is a very commonly used Micro subsetup, both in terms of the information available and in terms of the ability of people to save themselves by claiming. However, town have two advantages (they can claim results earlier without huge issues and it's very hard for scum to claim Inventor at lylo), and scum also have some advantages (people using Cop inventions aren't confirmed town, thus don't have to be telling the truth, and they can stop investigations giving usable information by killing any of the Inventor (the night before), the invention recipient, or the investigation target, which is more ability to screw with roles than they'd normally have). I think the town's advantages are probably larger here, but am far from certain. (Even if the setup is too town-sided, you could probably bring it back to balanced with a 1-shot roleblock or the like for the scum.)

EDIT: Cop + 6 v 2 is actually probably somewhat scumsided, based on statistics (it's been a Newbie subsetup for ages with observed win rates of around 40%). So Inventor (Cop)+ 6 v 2 is likely balanced if the Inventor is given an N0 action. Being Open rather than Variable Open probably helps town out a bit by cutting down on viable fake-claims for scum, but there aren't many of those in the typical Newbie anyway.
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ManateeDude
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Post Post #9  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:57 pm

Revamped it and might run it in micro sometime soon


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