[SETUP] Capture the Flag

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BulletNLynchproof
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Post Post #0  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:43 pm

1 Mafia Day 2 Flag Carrier
1 Mafia Day 3 Flag Carrier
1 Mafia Day 4 Flag Carrier
10 Vanilla Townies

If a Day X Flag Carrier is lynched on Day X, town wins immediately. Other rules are as in standard Mafia.

So I have tried to think of variations of this setup for a while, and after seeing implosion’s setup I found a nice way to present this.

Not sure how much the numbers need tweaking. But thoughts?
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Invisibility
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Post Post #1  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:47 pm

i really like the idea of calling insta-loss or negative utility on death roles flag carriers
otherwise i think its a pretty cool idea to have a godfather that switches around
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implosion
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Post Post #2  (ISO)  » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:14 am

This is neat. I might try to figure out the EV at some point.

RadiantCowbells
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Post Post #3  (ISO)  » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:16 am

I think these setups that focus around town getting the lynch correctly on one specific day are way harder for town than ev would dictate
Ask yourself, what would Keyser Soze do?

BulletNLynchproof
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Post Post #4  (ISO)  » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:50 am

Hmm, would D1/4+D2/5+D3/6 Flagbearers be better?
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BulletNLynchproof
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Post Post #5  (ISO)  » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:12 pm

So I did a computer simulation

My original version has an EV of about 38%, and the above version has an EV of about 45%

Hmmm
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Invisibility
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Post Post #6  (ISO)  » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:08 pm

12 player?!?!?!??!
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BulletNLynchproof
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Post Post #7  (ISO)  » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:44 pm

Huh? What do you mean 12 player?
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Invisibility
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Post Post #8  (ISO)  » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:56 pm

1 less townie
i have no idea what that would do to ev
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BulletNLynchproof
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Post Post #9  (ISO)  » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:57 pm

That sounds very weird
I feel like it would distrupt parity and I think ev will drop a lot overall
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Invisibility
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Post Post #10  (ISO)  » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:00 pm

what about two mafia being flagbearers on a certain day?
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Invisibility
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Post Post #11  (ISO)  » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:00 pm

idk
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BulletNLynchproof
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Post Post #12  (ISO)  » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:01 pm

In post 8, Invisibility wrote:1 less townie
i have no idea what that would do to ev

EV drops to 33.8%
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Invisibility
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Post Post #13  (ISO)  » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:08 pm

oh ok
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Irrelephant11
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Post Post #14  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:47 am

What if mafia has to decide each night who the flagbearer is, like they get to pass it around
They can't change it during the day
It's basically mountainous, because the deepest wolf will always hold the flag, but it gives town an interesting incentive to adjust their reads slightly so scum will misunderstand town's scumreads and pass it to the wrong player. Adds an interesting layer that I think overall would bump it a tiny bit in town's direction
If you want to make it more townsided you could also add a tpr who has a single "flag-freeze" shot, so mafia can't pass the flag that night

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Post Post #15  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:07 pm

Huh. Wouldn't have expected that.

The "decide each night" version (starting N0) of this is balanced linearly - for M Mafia you want about 3M+1 Townies. (1:4 is 46.67%, same as Vanilla, of course; 2:7 is 48.25%; 3:10 is 49.10%; 4:13 is 49.59%; 5:16 is 49.90%; and after that it actually creeps above 50%, maxing out at 14:43, 50.46%, before apparently approaching 50% from above while M:3M-1 approaches 50% from below). For comparison, Nightless is balanced at exactly M:3M. I suspect the EV approaches Nightless EV for sufficiently large M, regardless of M:T ratio (e.g. M:5M+1 approaches M:5M Nightless, EV 2/3 - 200:1001 in this setup is 66.61% for example).

Note that this is always a bit better than the fixed day assignment version (even the 1/4, 2/5, 3/6 type), since town might lynch the wrong Mafia at some point and lose out on a potential flag bearer lynch on a future day.

If you start N1 (which is probably a better way to go, so the first flag bearer choice isn't information-less), EV is 45.55%.

callforjudgement
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Post Post #16  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:30 pm

In post 14, Irrelephant11 wrote:What if mafia has to decide each night who the flagbearer is, like they get to pass it around


The simplest way to do that would be "if town lynch the scum who performed the kill last night, they win" (although that would mean there'd be no flagbearer for the D1 lynch).
scum · scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn · town

mith
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Post Post #17  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:10 pm

I like that flavor-wise, too.

Sukima
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Post Post #18  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:50 pm

Kinda like some sort of "Caught in the act" deal, flavorwise?

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Post Post #19  (ISO)  » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:30 pm

Right. (And as mentioned above, I prefer no D1 flagbearer. It's not like Mafia is totally screwed if they have one - they just have incentive to protect that player - but it feels a little less swingy without.)

Some more EVs for this version:

2:7 - 43.17%
2:9 - 50.27%
3:10 - 45.55%
3:12 - 50.92%
4:13 - 46.87%
5:14 - 43.22%
5:16 - 47.68%
6:17 - 44.47%
6:19 - 48.23%

(3:10 is probably the most interesting, but 2:7 isn't bad for a Micro, if you don't want the Nightless version at 3:6.)


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