[SETUP] Double Election
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[SETUP] Double Election
3 Mafia
7 Townies
Every Day, town vote for 2 people.
-If 2 Townies are voted for, both are lynched
-If a Townie and a Mafia is voted for, the Mafia is lynched
-If 2 Mafia are voted for, the Mafia choose one of those Mafia to be lynched
If Town lynch randomly each Day, the EV is 13/27, or 48.15%. I'm not sure that's the best strategy though, because I believe upon a M/? lynch, the ? has a >rand chance of being town than scum, although I believe this is compensated by the Mafia killing them >rand amount of the time.
This setup is interesting because, unlike normal Mafia where you are more likely to mislynch than lynch, here you are more likely to lynch than mislynch. To compensate, you need more lynches than you can afford mislynches.
Also, I'm not sure how the winrate will differ from EV due to mechanics.Last edited by BNL on Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.- RadiantCowbells
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In post 2, RadiantCowbells wrote:Can you tinker with the same lynch mechanics and make a viable nightless setup?
Whenever scum dies, they get a vengekillIn post 5, Gamma Emerald wrote:I like the concept but am not a fan of the numbers of people dying in each scenario being different. Reminds me of another setup, double investigation.
It's nightless
That way it's:
always two deaths, like a normal game
and it's nightless
And also it leads to the fun situation where scum vengekills someone other than the other lynch so as to fake spew that other slot red- RadiantCowbells
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I don't think 1/3 is achievable in this setup; I think only 1/2, 2/3, 3/4, 1/5, 2/6, 3/7 are possible notwithstanding a no lynch.- BuJaber
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What happens if all townies are 'hated'? Would that make it balanced for nightless?In post 7, RadiantCowbells wrote:I mean nightless without giving scum vengekills.
L-1 would essentially become hammer. If it isn't hammer it's a guilty. But at the same time town are easier to lynch.
It also makes town much more hesitant to join wagons which could add an extra layer of WIFOM.- Irrelephant11
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As I was writing a response I realized I don't actually know how Bullet is imagining the voting would work.In post 14, Irrelephant11 wrote:@BuJ idk how that works if one wagon is town and the other is scum - only scum should die there, but I think the town would get confirmed by reaching a lynch first
Is each player forced to vote for 2 people at the same time?
Or is it voting is normal but as soon as a hammer occurrs that player is treated dead until a 2nd hammer and then the flip occurs?- BNL
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I currently envision it as voting for a pair of players rather than two separate votes- BNL
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Seeing how well received this setup is, I want to test it out after I have completed modding my mini theme. Hence any further discussion would be appreciated- BuJaber
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Tbh I think it's town-sided.
I feel like the lynch resolutions give away too much info.
Though now that I say that I don't know how much things change is scum choose NOT to kill for 1, 2, or 3 nights? That might actually be their best shot because it increases the odds of mislynching during the day.
In fact if you consider the option of not killing during the night, you can end up with many different day ratios, including the 1:3 elephant was talking about.- callforjudgement
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I assume there's a regular scum nightkill here?
The setup is somewhat swingy, as town only have one mislynch. That can make the balance fairly hard to calculate. (Come to think of it, this game is more or less the exact opposite of a 7:2 vanilla game; instead of town winning with two correct lynches and scum winning with three mislynches, we have town winning with three correct lynches and scum winning with two mislynches.)
The basic Happily Ever After scenario (1:3 with a no-lynch being good for town and a no-kill being good for scum) is in full force here. As such, I'd recommend must-lynch must-kill, unless we want to intentionally break the symmetry as a method of adjusting the balance of the setup.
I don't think a direct EV calculation is the right thing to do here: after a correct lynch, if scum don't kill the other player who was targeted for a lynch (and they probably won't), the situation is now asymmetrical. Town has two strategies: including the same person in the lynch again, or lynching an entirely disjoint pair. There's no particular reason to expect those strategies to have the same EV as each other (in fact, they probably don't), so an EV calculation needs to take optimal town strategy into account rather than just assuming random lynches (a better way to think about it is that an EV calculation assumes randomreads, but that town make full use of any setup-based breaking strategies). I'm a bit tired/busy to do that right now, though.scum· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·town- Irrelephant11
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When a scum gets lynched, the second "lynched" player is 4.3x more likely to be town than scum (on day 1)
When a scum gets lynched, every other player is 3.4x more likely to be town than scum (on day 1)
Assuming this sort of math holds true for other days, it is mathematically always better to choose a brand new pair to lynch
The only problem being... both of the lynch choices are likely to be the two scummiest d1 players. So really, in practice, it should just be like a "oh, the other one flipped scum? Fine, you get like 1 point of towniness for sitting next to them", since that player is already >rand scum according to the reads of a majority of players- mith
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This game is being run in the Blitz queue at 3:7!
I have also changed the title of the setup to differentiate it from one in the wiki.- singletonking
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balance aside the dynamic of all players wanting to vote the other two players is a really bad social deduction game phase"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?" - Isis
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