[Setup] So I heard you hate Serial Killer...

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
User avatar
Elsa Jay
Elsa Jay
He or She. Idc.
Chaos and Confusion
User avatar
User avatar
Elsa Jay
He or She. Idc.
Chaos and Confusion
Chaos and Confusion
Posts: 6604
Joined: September 30, 2018
Pronoun: He or She. Idc.
Location: 'Murica, or Arendelle. Either works.

[Setup] So I heard you hate Serial Killer...

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:10 pm

Post by Elsa Jay »

6
Vanilla Townies

3
1 shot Bulletproof Serial Killers


The name of the the game is simple... See what you can do when put in an unusual situation.

Serial Killer wincon: Be the Last Player standing.

Town wincon: Have all 3 Serial Killers die with atleast 1 townie still standing.

In the event of a draw, the town votes which Serial Killer deserves the win.


This is my masterpiece. Look at it. Appriciate it. Love it.

Serious and stupid feedback will all be taken.
I made a GTKAS. Go shitpost in it if you want. It's very lonely.

"Even when I leave mafia and play an entirely different game I can't escape you you menace." - North/Wenya
User avatar
BNL
BNL
Micro Madness
User avatar
User avatar
BNL
Micro Madness
Micro Madness
Posts: 3338
Joined: September 15, 2015
Location: EDT+12

Post Post #1 (ISO) » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:23 pm

Post by BNL »

It's not mafia without a 2-person scumteam
GTKAS - BNL

Busy, on indefinite V/LA. May return April 2020
User avatar
Elsa Jay
Elsa Jay
He or She. Idc.
Chaos and Confusion
User avatar
User avatar
Elsa Jay
He or She. Idc.
Chaos and Confusion
Chaos and Confusion
Posts: 6604
Joined: September 30, 2018
Pronoun: He or She. Idc.
Location: 'Murica, or Arendelle. Either works.

Post Post #2 (ISO) » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:27 pm

Post by Elsa Jay »

Would you rather it be called "Serial Killer" then? Because the base concept is the same. You hunt for scum and try and win for town. If your scum, you try and kill the opposition between you and victory.
User avatar
Awoo
Awoo
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Awoo
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1096
Joined: September 1, 2017
Location: lmao city

Post Post #3 (ISO) » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:32 pm

Post by Awoo »

its not mafia without assosciatives [ie 2 person scumteam]
User avatar
Elsa Jay
Elsa Jay
He or She. Idc.
Chaos and Confusion
User avatar
User avatar
Elsa Jay
He or She. Idc.
Chaos and Confusion
Chaos and Confusion
Posts: 6604
Joined: September 30, 2018
Pronoun: He or She. Idc.
Location: 'Murica, or Arendelle. Either works.

Post Post #4 (ISO) » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:07 pm

Post by Elsa Jay »

I consulted with my lawyers on the subject and Appearantly this would be classified as a "Bastard", or something of that nature.

Viewer discretion is adviced.
User avatar
Awoo
Awoo
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Awoo
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1096
Joined: September 1, 2017
Location: lmao city

Post Post #5 (ISO) » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:40 pm

Post by Awoo »

It would be classified as: Not A Mafia Game
User avatar
Gamma Emerald
Gamma Emerald
She/It
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Gamma Emerald
She/It
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 69101
Joined: August 9, 2016
Pronoun: She/It
Location: Hell on Earth (aka Texas)

Post Post #6 (ISO) » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:17 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

I don’t think anyone actually cares if it’s Mafia or not
<Embrace The Void>


My pronouns are she and it, please respect that. I don't mind the occasional slip.
User avatar
Elsa Jay
Elsa Jay
He or She. Idc.
Chaos and Confusion
User avatar
User avatar
Elsa Jay
He or She. Idc.
Chaos and Confusion
Chaos and Confusion
Posts: 6604
Joined: September 30, 2018
Pronoun: He or She. Idc.
Location: 'Murica, or Arendelle. Either works.

Post Post #7 (ISO) » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:40 am

Post by Elsa Jay »

Finally, a supporter. But if we ignore the "it's not Mafia" dealio, how about the actual game now?
User avatar
Irrelephant11
Irrelephant11
He
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Irrelephant11
He
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6276
Joined: April 9, 2018
Pronoun: He
Location: My dog's eyes

Post Post #8 (ISO) » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:15 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

all vts should also be 1 shot bulletproof
User avatar
Irrelephant11
Irrelephant11
He
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Irrelephant11
He
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6276
Joined: April 9, 2018
Pronoun: He
Location: My dog's eyes

Post Post #9 (ISO) » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:19 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

actually, only vt's should be 1 shot bulletproof
or something

the fact town can lose N1 is dumb, is my point, especially since town can't win till D3
User avatar
Elsa Jay
Elsa Jay
He or She. Idc.
Chaos and Confusion
User avatar
User avatar
Elsa Jay
He or She. Idc.
Chaos and Confusion
Chaos and Confusion
Posts: 6604
Joined: September 30, 2018
Pronoun: He or She. Idc.
Location: 'Murica, or Arendelle. Either works.

Post Post #10 (ISO) » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:29 am

Post by Elsa Jay »

The point of the game is that the Serial Killers are also gonna end up having to stab each other first if they want to win. If they stab someone and they don't die, they KNOW they're also a Serial Killer. It's so they either try and get THEM hung to win or leave them to stab other townies for then and kill them later.

The SKs are after each other as much as they are townies. More so, even.

Town doesn't even come close to losing N1 because the SKs all have a 1/4 to stab another SK n1 as well. Or stab the same target as another. And isn't "Town can't win until day 3" normal for literally most games? If they could win day 1 it's not that fun.
I made a GTKAS. Go shitpost in it if you want. It's very lonely.

"Even when I leave mafia and play an entirely different game I can't escape you you menace." - North/Wenya
User avatar
Irrelephant11
Irrelephant11
He
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Irrelephant11
He
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6276
Joined: April 9, 2018
Pronoun: He
Location: My dog's eyes

Post Post #11 (ISO) » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:50 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Yeah, winning D3 is fine, but not when compared to losing N1 (mislynch, all three SK's shoot townies (intentionally or not), two town vs three SK's, at which point the SK's just blatantly try to charisma their way into being kingmade)
Well, I guess theoretically 2v1v1v1 isn't a town loss immediately, but it's not fun for town anymore

Maybe you just need more townies

Also I'm in agreement that this can't really be run as mafia, but it could maybe be a fun game for mish mash or something so I'm willing to have the discussion
User avatar
Elsa Jay
Elsa Jay
He or She. Idc.
Chaos and Confusion
User avatar
User avatar
Elsa Jay
He or She. Idc.
Chaos and Confusion
Chaos and Confusion
Posts: 6604
Joined: September 30, 2018
Pronoun: He or She. Idc.
Location: 'Murica, or Arendelle. Either works.

Post Post #12 (ISO) » Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:10 am

Post by Elsa Jay »

Will it be better if I add a single Bulletproof townie then?

And I was thinking of making it 12/13 people, but then I feel like I'd have to add something more to it. What could make this fun for everyone, in your opinion?
User avatar
Irrelephant11
Irrelephant11
He
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Irrelephant11
He
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6276
Joined: April 9, 2018
Pronoun: He
Location: My dog's eyes

Post Post #13 (ISO) » Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:22 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Well, a single bulletproof townie doesn't prevent the scenario I just described from being possible
Oh I see like a 7th townie who's bulletproof
Eh 3v1v1v1 is still pretty icky
Adding two townies makes it so worst-case is 4v1v1v1 D2, which is less bad but still kind bad because D3 can be 2v1v1 if town has only had a single mislynch

Something like 10v1v1v1 to start might work, worst case 7v1v1v1, followed by 4v1v1v1 (very hard to win from here but this scenario has gotten much less likely, and town has mislynched twice already)
of course, two mislynches is actually pretty plausible in a game where associations don't exist. Ideal play for SKs are to shoot absolutely randomly and scumhunt like a good townie during the day, not sure what would make scum catch-able here (aside from being low on charisma) unless TPRs can provide information

The longer I talk the more I'm convinced this sort of setup will only ever be fun for the SKs
User avatar
Awoo
Awoo
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Awoo
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1096
Joined: September 1, 2017
Location: lmao city

Post Post #14 (ISO) » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:50 am

Post by Awoo »

YEah, exactly. Fun to think about, not to play.
User avatar
Elsa Jay
Elsa Jay
He or She. Idc.
Chaos and Confusion
User avatar
User avatar
Elsa Jay
He or She. Idc.
Chaos and Confusion
Chaos and Confusion
Posts: 6604
Joined: September 30, 2018
Pronoun: He or She. Idc.
Location: 'Murica, or Arendelle. Either works.

Post Post #15 (ISO) » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:58 am

Post by Elsa Jay »

Well I'm trying to actually find a balance with atleast a game with a similar style to this that'll actually work and be fun more for everyone.

What PRs would make this more balanced then against multiple Serial Killers? For arguments sake you can switch around the amount of players between 9-13 people.
User avatar
Gamma Emerald
Gamma Emerald
She/It
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Gamma Emerald
She/It
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 69101
Joined: August 9, 2016
Pronoun: She/It
Location: Hell on Earth (aka Texas)

Post Post #16 (ISO) » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:26 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Even 9v1v1v1v1 might work
<Embrace The Void>


My pronouns are she and it, please respect that. I don't mind the occasional slip.
User avatar
Elsa Jay
Elsa Jay
He or She. Idc.
Chaos and Confusion
User avatar
User avatar
Elsa Jay
He or She. Idc.
Chaos and Confusion
Chaos and Confusion
Posts: 6604
Joined: September 30, 2018
Pronoun: He or She. Idc.
Location: 'Murica, or Arendelle. Either works.

Post Post #17 (ISO) » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:32 am

Post by Elsa Jay »

I made it 9 mainly because micro seemed like a good place to start, but yeah, it makes more sense like that, Gamma. Seems more likely for everyone to have fun.

What TPR will balance that out though? Because I know 1 or 2 of the townies is also getting a bulletproof as part of the red herring for SKs. Doc and vigilante is a no-go for for obvious reasons. Maybe a redirector?
User avatar
Gamma Emerald
Gamma Emerald
She/It
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Gamma Emerald
She/It
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 69101
Joined: August 9, 2016
Pronoun: She/It
Location: Hell on Earth (aka Texas)

Post Post #18 (ISO) » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:34 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Redirect seems fun and hectic
<Embrace The Void>


My pronouns are she and it, please respect that. I don't mind the occasional slip.
User avatar
Elsa Jay
Elsa Jay
He or She. Idc.
Chaos and Confusion
User avatar
User avatar
Elsa Jay
He or She. Idc.
Chaos and Confusion
Chaos and Confusion
Posts: 6604
Joined: September 30, 2018
Pronoun: He or She. Idc.
Location: 'Murica, or Arendelle. Either works.

Post Post #19 (ISO) » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:35 am

Post by Elsa Jay »

Should I distinguish and give the SKs different types of abilities or keep then uniform and have them all of the same type.
User avatar
callforjudgement
callforjudgement
Microprocessor
User avatar
User avatar
callforjudgement
Microprocessor
Microprocessor
Posts: 3972
Joined: September 1, 2011

Post Post #20 (ISO) » Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:05 am

Post by callforjudgement »

One issue with this sort of setup is that SKs have no reason to play any differently from VTs. As a VT, you're trying to find and lynch serial killers. As a serial killer, your motivation and goals are exactly the same. So we shouldn't expect any play difference between the various factions, and scumhunting is likely impossible.

This is also much more townsided than it looks, due to town getting the deciding vote in the case of a draw. When the setup gets down to small numbers (e.g. 2v1v1v1), town can say that in the case of a draw, they'll give the win only to serial killers who don't shoot townies (and they have no reason to go back on this offer). At that point it becomes more or less suicidal in two different ways for serial killers to intentionally shoot town, so after a no-lynch (best for town), two or three of the serial killers will die overnight, and town will have a chance to win the resulting 2:1 ending. (The serial killers still have a chance, but it mostly relies on being misidentified as a townie.) These effects mean that the endgame situations are much more viable for town than they look.
scum
· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·
town
Post Reply

Return to “Open Setup Discussion”