Yeah, you're right. maybe I'll come up with something better, but for now I'll just go with the submission that actually works.
Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:05 am
by mith
I have an idea for a setup that's perfect for this (it's an old idea), but I still haven't gotten it to work out. Boo.
Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:06 am
by Irrelephant11
Real submission
Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:32 am
by callforjudgement
The 9V version of the setup is pointless: with 9V, there won't be any way for townies to survive kills, thus the Loud modifier on the Goons does nothing. There are probably other issues like that in the setup; I haven't looked at it in detail.
I like the idea, though; it's more that the details need working out.
Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:34 am
by Irrelephant11
?
With 9V, as the setup currently stands:
Named townie
1-shot bulletproof
5 vts
2 loud goons
Edit: this was actually my starting point and is one of my favorite possible setups. The wifom generated by the fact that a scum misfire can create a guilty feels very fun to play
Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:35 am
by Irrelephant11
I’ve looked at all 15 possible setups, and can post those in a separate post if anyone wants it
Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:56 am
by callforjudgement
Oh, I missed that 0 of a power role letter didn't create a vanilla setup. In that case it probably works.
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:44 am
by Irrelephant11
Spoiler: possible setups
Named townie
1-shot bulletproof
5 vts
2 loud goons
Parity Neapolitan
Doctor
5 vts
1-shot strongman & goon
Named townie
Jailkeeper
5 vts
1-shot strongman & goon
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:12 am
by BNL
Do people pick their letter before or after seeing their alignment?
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:43 am
by Irrelephant11
After. And mafia definitely get to coordinate pregame. I can’t decide if the thread should also be open for a discussion phase before letters are submitted - I think this is the only way to get some setups (when would 9V happen randomly, for example) but also makes the process of choosing letters much more important, with some players trying to force their will on others, etc. which messes with the Choose Your Own Adventure spirit.
Thoughts?
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:44 am
by Irrelephant11
I guess a pregame discussion phase before anyone receives alignments could be interesting, too, now that I think about it.
Maybe pregame discussion > alignments sent out and scumchat opened > submitting letters?
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:57 am
by BNL
Random draft setup:
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:58 am
by BNL
I highly dislike a pregame phase with unknown alignments.
Edit: I think it'll be nice if the PRs are assigned to those who asked for that type, if possible
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:07 am
by Irrelephant11
Yeah I like that idea too, but the scenario I wanted to avoid is as follows:
All town submit I. Both scum submit P. A townie who submitted an I is given the role bodyguard and suddenly knows exactly what scum submitted, which could potentially be a lot of information to be used in game
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:18 am
by BNL
Yeah that scenario seems awful but... scum can just counteract this by simply choosing different letters? Or rather neither II nor PP
It'll be a problem even without my addition if scum both choose P and all townies choose I.
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:29 am
by Not Known 15
In post 62, BNL wrote:Additionally, if the Mafia is lynched with only town on it, town win immediately.
D1 lynch: Mafia. 4 townies outside the lynch, confirmed town.
N1 kill: A confirmed townie.
D2: 3 conf Town 4 non-conf town.
The conftown select a non-conf town to lynch(but don't lynch). All non-conf town are assigned to bodyguard a conftown. The non-conftown is lynched with all non-conftown on them.
N2: No kill.
D2: 3 conftown 3 nonconf town.
They vote to lynch another nonconf town with 2 nonconf and 2 conftown on it. One nonconf is assigned to
conftown A, who doesn't vote.
Conftown B protects Conftown C.
The other nonconf town is assigned to protect B.
Now the mafia either kills their protection target and outs themselves, or no-kills into 3conf-town and 2 non-conf town, which is instant endgame, too.
---->a Mafia lynch on Day 1 is always a mafia loss.
D1 lynch: Town.
N1 kill: Town.
D2 lynch: Mafia(scum on the wagon)->3 conftown 3 non-conftown.
N2 kill: Conftown killed.
2 conftown vs 3 non-conftown...
Nonconftown lynched by 2 non-conftown and one conftown.
----> a Mafia lynch on Day 2 results in two successive lynches in a POE of 3; or in an instant mafia loss if Mafia is outside.
D1 lynch:Town.
N1 kill:Town
D2 lynch:Town
N2 kill:Town.
D3:LYLO, Mafia lynched with scum on the wagon.
N3:Conftown killed/no kill:
D4:LYLO/MYLO in a 1v1 situation.
--->win chance after this mafia lynch:50%.
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:05 pm
by DrDolittle
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:11 pm
by callforjudgement
Scum seem to have no reason not to camp the bomb, here. Town doesn't know where the bomb is, so they're as likely to pick the bomb's location as any other.
Also, I expect this to be very townsided. 7:2 nightless is townsided as it is, and town are hardly hurt by any outcome of the defusal mechanic (it leads to an occasional town death, but the information gained from it is probably more valuable to town than that, and the deaths, despite being deaths of townies, are town-directed).
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:15 pm
by DrDolittle
yup bomb always have to be camped, as is per usual. I didn't like 7-2 since if one scum got lynched it was effectively game over. I upped the numbers a bit
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:16 pm
by DrDolittle
I'm not too afraid of balance issues, since I can always throw mafia X-shot NK or town more CTs, but I wonder whether it would be a fun setup to play - or does it deviate too much from mafia in general?
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:20 pm
by DrDolittle
In post 68, callforjudgement wrote:Town doesn't know where the bomb is, so they're as likely to pick the bomb's location as any other.
Actually this is not true... if town investigates A and dies, then posterior probability is higher that A has the bomb. Suppose actually B has the bomb. Say its 2 town 1 scum going into night. Does scum camp A and hope for an investigation there, or does he camp B to be safe?
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:26 pm
by callforjudgement
Ah right, I hadn't thought about the situation after scum deaths. There is some WIFOM involved when there's only one scum left.
I'd be inclined to choose 8:3 as the correct numbers rather than 9:3; I think you have the right idea by changing the numbers round though.
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:26 pm
by DrDolittle
I also am a bit nervous about mountainous nature since there's no way to get rid of good towns. probably throw in a X-shot NK somewhere
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:28 pm
by DrDolittle
In post 72, callforjudgement wrote:I'd be inclined to choose 8:3 as the correct numbers rather than 9:3; I think you have the right idea by changing the numbers round though.