[APRIL CHALLENGE]

[OkaPoka]

Mutiny Mafia

13 Town (alternatively some flavored name like Crew Members)

4 Mafia (alt: Mafia Crew Members)

This game will feature a "mutiny" mechanic which will be explained more in the night phase section. All deadlines are for example and subject to change along with # of town members and # of mafia members.
Yes the game goes Dawn -> Day -> Dusk -> Night -> Dawn etc.

Dawn

->The names of all mutineers from the previous night will be published.
-> The mutineed captain will walk the plank, if the mutineed captain is Mafia aligned, he may vengekill one mutineer* (edited)

Day

->Thread will be unlocked for ~12 days
->If there is no captain, by plurality vote, the town must select a captain. If a majority vote is reached beforehand, the captain will be immediately selected.
->Thread will thus be locked at the selection of a captain. However if there already is a captain, the captain may elect to end the day at any time.

Dusk

->The captain will have 36 hours and must select one crew members to "walk the plank" (kill).
->This kill will be published at the end of dusk/start of night

Night

->Is 36 hours
->The crew(everyone except the captain) may submit to the moderator whether they would like to "Mutiny"
->If a majority of the crew elects to mutiny, the captain will "walk the plank" at dawn.
->If the mutiny fails (not enough votes), the captain will remain the captain.

Other notes

->Mafia wincondition is to reach parity with town
->Mafia have access to daytalk at all times
->Days with failed mutinies should have a shorter deadline. (Normal Day/2) ?

ok i edited in a vengekill mechanic for scum to give scum more power, thoughts?

[Irrelephant11]

Spoiler:

Mutiny Mafia

13 Town (alternatively some flavored name like Crew Members)

4 Mafia (alt: Mafia Crew Members)

This game will feature a "mutiny" mechanic which will be explained more in the night phase section. All deadlines are for example and subject to change along with # of town members and # of mafia members.
Yes the game goes Dawn -> Day -> Dusk -> Night -> Dawn etc.

Dawn

->The names of all mutineers from the previous night will be published.
-> The mutineed captain will walk the plank, if the mutineed captain is Mafia aligned, he may vengekill one mutineer* (edited)

Day

->Thread will be unlocked for ~12 days
->If there is no captain, by plurality vote, the town must select a captain. If a majority vote is reached beforehand, the captain will be immediately selected.
->Thread will thus be locked at the selection of a captain. However if there already is a captain, the captain may elect to end the day at any time.

Dusk

->The captain will have 36 hours and must select one crew members to "walk the plank" (kill).
->This kill will be published at the end of dusk/start of night

Night

->Is 36 hours
->The crew(everyone except the captain) may submit to the moderator whether they would like to "Mutiny"
->If a majority of the crew elects to mutiny, the captain will "walk the plank" at dawn.
->If the mutiny fails (not enough votes), the captain will remain the captain.

Other notes

->Mafia wincondition is to reach parity with town
->Mafia have access to daytalk at all times
->Days with failed mutinies should have a shorter deadline. (Normal Day/2) ?

ok i edited in a vengekill mechanic for scum to give scum more power, thoughts?

I think this is likely to be very townsided as a single townie can win the game for town without any chance of being nightkilled.

That said, I have edited it into 160

[Irrelephant11]

All setups in their current form are in 160

If you have any last-second edits or think I am mistaken in that post, please share so ASAP.

You may begin voting using the same voting as the last couple months (unless there are objections?). Rank all setups (you can rank as many as you want on the same level) - we'll put them in that thing that outputs a winner in a few days.

Go go go

[Jingle]

Hot Potato- Pure Nepotism.
Fibonacci Mafia (BNL) - I want to see this run just to look at how the mafia splits people up. Also, pretty sure BNL edited it to be 15v6.
Forkbomb Mafia (implo) - Chaotic and fast. I feel like this should happen next marathon time.
True Popcorn (Radiant Cowbells) - I can dig it. Not sure on balance, but it's simple enough to run and let the chips fall where there are chips.
Balance in the Neighborhoods (Ankamius) - I'd play it.
Baton Pass (NSG) - A choose town game. Interesting. I'd play it.
Splash Damage (TL) - I want to say I'd rank this higher with it being 17p, but I probably wouldn't. There were just a lot of solid submissions this go round.
Mirror World (cfj) - Solid setup, probably too big and slow for me to want to play, but definitely playable.
Mutiny (OkaPoka) - Not a big fan of Kingmaker games in general. An interesting twist on it, but I feel like it's probably not enough to stand on it's own one leg and one wooden peg.
Handler (S_S)- He handles. This is probably the bar of playable, but I wouldn't want to play it.
We Will Not Stop Planning (NK15) - I think we've managed to work out the kinks, but honestly it's probably too complicated for me to ever want to play it.
Good Fences Make Dead Neighbors (NMSA) - I feel like there's a lot to be worked on/clarified before this setup is ready.
Bundle Mafia (DDL) - Not terrible, but... Eh. Seems kinda boring to me. :shrug:
Team Mafia (CJ) - I feel like there are still probably kinks to work out here.
Some Enchanted Forest (BBMolla) - Honestly, not really a fan. It seems needlessly complicated. The clan seems strictly better than the mafia. Also, I think Goblin just instaclaims? Like, if goblin claims, both maf and clan autowin, so they claim. Goblin then gets put into top 5 for autowin, town puts mafia in top 5 for win, and Leprechaun knows exactly who town is for win. :shrug:

[Irrelephant11]

Fibonacci Mafia (BNL) - I want to see this run just to look at how the mafia splits people up. Also, pretty sure BNL edited it to be 15v6.

fixed

[popsofctown]

Rank 1: Mirror World I like hydra mechanics, I don't like actual hydras.
Rank 2: Handler mafia I love mechanics that make townreads meaningful
Rank 3: Balance in the neighborhood Ditto
Rank 4: We will not stop planning It's super messy but pretty intriguing
Rank 5: Some Enchanted Forest Actually presents a novel experience, but on the other hand I'm wary of "everything happens day 1".
Rank 6: Mutiny Mafia Workability concerns but feels like mafia without being exactly like it.
Rank 7: Forkbomb, Potato, Fibonacci, Fences Dead Neighbors, Bundle, True Popcorn, Baton Pass All add mechanics that lose something good about mafia without exploring something as fascinating as the above.
Rank 8: Splash Damage Mafia, Team Mafia : multiball and cop are on my blacklists for their impact on dayplay.

[Jingle]

Some Enchanted Forest (BBMolla) - Honestly, not really a fan. It seems needlessly complicated. The clan seems strictly better than the mafia. Also, I think Goblin just instaclaims? Like, if goblin claims, both maf and clan autowin, so they claim. Goblin then gets put into top 5 for autowin, town puts mafia in top 5 for win, and Leprechaun knows exactly who town is for win. :shrug:

I need to stop realizing breaking strategies when I go to rank setups.

[implosion]

i think i might actually run forkbomb as a large theme very soon. It certainly is more on the theme side of opens, and it's very appealing to moderate because I won't have to post any votecounts :p. Let me know if you want to pre-in.

[implosion]

(and also if anyone has strong opinions on numbers in the setup, let me know now before I do it!)

[Jingle]

Numbers look fine to me, but you might ask FG. He's kinda that big name that pops up in my head when you're looking for similar open-themed setups.

[implosion]

One tiny amendment I just thought of:

Mafia-aligned players may never fork in such a way that they would immediately win (e.g., if there is 1 alive mafia and 3 alive town, a forked mafia may not fork to two of the alive town, though if desired they could fork one of them and one other already-forked player). If they do attempt such a fork, the moderator will announce that it failed, and that mafia member will die. There should never be any good reason for this to happen.

has been edited this to:

Mafia-aligned players may never fork in such a way that they would immediately win. Two examples: (1) If there is 1 alive mafia and 3 alive town, a forked mafia may not fork to two of the alive town, though if desired they could fork one of them and one other already-forked player. (2) If there are 2 alive mafia and 3 alive town, and 1 forked mafia and 2 forked town, the forked mafia could not fork the two already-forked town, as this would cause the "no forked players" clause to take effect and the mafia would get to fork a townie for free and immediately win. If they do attempt such a fork, the moderator will announce that it failed, and that mafia member will die. There should never be any good reason for this to happen.

[RadiantCowbells]

so many of these games seem essentially unplayable as an actual game.

i guess i'll just high rate the playable ones

[TemporalLich]

Here's my setup vote.

Splash Damage (TemporalLich) - My setup so I'm biased. This actually seems to be a very fun and deep setup, though I should have just made it 17p (with another VT).
Mirror World (callforjudgement) - Reading the setup again, this is actually a very fun and deep setup. /pre-in if possible.
Balance in the Neighborhoods (Ankamius) - Townreads and scumreads are useful here. Two ways for the town to win is very interesting indeed.
Baton Pass (northsidegal) - Townreads and scumreads are useful here, it's reverse popcorn with a side of Mafia.
Fibonacci Mafia (BulletAndLynchproof) - Despite the mass elimination, you still need to read people. And challenges are interesting.
The Handler (Something_Smart) - Another "Townreads and scumreads are useful here" setup. Seems fun I guess.
True Popcorn (RadiantCowbells) - It's a fun marathon game. Truly something to see at least once.
Mutiny Mafia (OkaPoka) - It's Kingmaker but with votes like Mafia. Seems fun I guess.
Good Fences Make Dead Neighbors (NotMySpamAccount) - The randomness seems a bit too much for me, but it is interesting regardless.
Hot Potato Mafia (Jingle) - Another fun marathon or blitz idea. It's a nice feeling to End Day when scum have potatoes.
Forkbomb Mafia (implosion) - Seems pretty fun as a marathon or blitz I guess.
We Will Not Stop Planning! (Not Known 15) - A complex but interesting setup. Disruption! being a scumclaim feels wrong though.
Some Enchanted Forest (BBmolla) - Wow it would suck to roll Mafia in this setup. It seems interesting, but nobody wants to be Mafia. Mafia should get a PT with daytalk. Also the Goblin can destroy the game by claiming Goblin.
Bundle Mafia (DrDolittle) - The concept doesn't gel with me, but the setup seems theoretically playable at least.
Team Mafia (ceejayvinova) - The concept doesn't gel with me. Sorry. Also teams of 2 and 4 are the only viable teams except to save a townread.

[callforjudgement]

Votes and explanation, best to worst:

• Mirror World: I normally find Larges unmanageable. This seems like a good way to make them a biit more manageable, by reducing the amount of gamestate that players have to worry about. Also, it's my setup, so I might be a bit biased :-)
  
• Forkbomb Mafia: I think this works. I'm worried that it may be too large for the mechanics, but it'd be interesting to see a scaled-down version. The mechanic feels like it's somewhere between Nightless and Vengescum balance-wise, so there may be too many townies, but this is something you could determine experimentally.
  
• Fibonacci Mafia: To win this, scum need to either be able to manipulate the whole gamestate (requiring a large scum concentration), or else to bring the scum concentration gradually upwards over time. The latter implies trying to get scum into the
  selecting
  part of the split (rather than the challengers or challengees), which they don't have much control over but might happen by chance. So this is likely going to come down to reads, which seems about right.
  
• Balance in the Neighbourhoods: I think the mechanic broadly works. I suspect that this version is somewhat townsided, though (although the scum concentration will be high by the second pass through the neighbourhoods, there seems to be too much chance of town winning simply by chance). This does have the issue that there's not much town can do about known scum.
  
• Splash Damage: This actually seems to fix many of the usual multiball problems. There's likely multiball screwiness in here somewhere, but I can't immediately see it, which is a very good sign. Should be somewhat self-balancing, as usual for multiball (scum will aim for each other when town is doing badly, for town when town is doing well).
  
• The Handler: Lynching targets is always bad for town (they're potentially forced to in lylo, but that just makes things worse for town as a result), so this will end up turning into something akin to True Love but a bit bigger. Practical results in that setup are below EV; the setup's EV seems a bit higher than 50% (I haven't calculated it directly), but the mechanic likely compensates for that. I'm not convinced whether it'd be all that fun to play (it especially seems a bit demoralising as scum).
  
• Baton Pass: This is pretty close to a Triple Day setup, especiially if the popcorning order is agreed in advance before ending the day (it should go towniest down to scummiest). Scum can hardly get an advantage from violating it. I suspect that the mechanic will end up mostly irrelevant. 11:4 do seem like good numbers for Triple Day, though, and the scum nightkill seems to be well-designed.
  
• True Popcorn: This feels like it's already an existing setup, although it's possible it differs in the details from all of them. At least, the EV is already present in mith's tables (35.55%, which seems a bit low?). I'm not sure how fun this would be to play, either; it likely plays out like a 16p nightless (i.e. way too slow) except with the chance of townies screwing about and not playing as directed (and the certainty that scum will – I just realised to my horror that scum would probably run the day out to deadline after being lynched as a method of demotivating people, and there's nothing town can do about that).
  
• Mutiny Mafia: Won't town just leash the captain? If so, the setup effectively becomes "Nightless except when you want to lynch the Captain, in which case it's still Nightless unless they're scum". At 13:4, that's incredibly townsided (it has an
  EV
  that's likely above 50%, and with scum-directed kills very hard to come by, real town win rates are likely to be way above EV). In general, the Captain mechanic doesn't seem to do much here.
  
• Team Mafia: As with so many setups this month, broken for town via leashing the team selection (you get five lynches per day, and can risk the occasional cop investigation or vig shot if you want it).
  
• Bundle Mafia: Town get a very good win rate here via leashing. Oddly, I'm not convinced that's even necessary – they probably get a very good win rate via not leashing, too. I think it might work better if the bundles were selected randomly rather than by the players.
  
• Hot Potato: This has huge logistical issues; in particular, being online constantly is a huge advantage (if a group of 2 or more players are online and nobody else is, they can ensure that nobody in that group is lynched unless the potatoes are on the verge of exploding). It might work as a marathon, but even then would likely benefit people with the best Internet connections. If you can potato people while they're asleep, this'll effectively turn into an endurance game.
  
• Good Fences Make Dead Neighbours: I really like the basic idea, but the victory conditions need work. In particular, say there's scum in every neighbourhood. How can town win?
  
• Some Enchanted Forest: I think this has a similar problem to SS3, in that correct play is basically identical for every faction, making scumhunting almost impossible. There are plenty of deterrents to claiming here, but with everyone acting individually (I think it's incorrect for town to attempt to leash each others' reads lists), what information is going to exist in the game?
  
• We Will Not Stop Planning: It's hard enough for people experienced with setup design to follow along with this; I think the game would be dominated by players not understanding what's going on. I can't see any reason for town not to leash the Event Planner (each Event Planner would claim the identity of the next one; it's impossible to viably fakeclaim this). The prison mechanic is likely less fun than it sounds; you have all these players who are effectively lynched except that they haven't flipped and might not actually be lynched, and chances of scum completely screwing up. Do scum have a kill? If not, this game could last years.

[Jingle]

if a group of 2 or more players are online and nobody else is, they can ensure that nobody in that group is lynched unless the potatoes are on the verge of exploding

FWIW, this isn't actually true with the potato timer update.

[callforjudgement]

Ah right, there's a limit on how often you can pass.

It still gives an advantage for being online every 6 hours, though (which is going to be pretty tricky with most people's sleep schedules!).

[callforjudgement]

(and also if anyone has strong opinions on numbers in the setup, let me know now before I do it!)

The setup is more likely to have too many townies than too few. I'm not confident enough in my balance assessment to recommend removing townies yet, though.

[callforjudgement]

I edited Mirror World to permit self-voting (otherwise the ending with town doublevoter in the light world, scum-paired-with-doublevoter and town in the dark world, comes down to who gets the first vote in, when it should logically come down to whether town recognise which dark world player is scum).

[BNL]

Planning on voting soon. How long do we have to vote?

[Irrelephant11]

I was gonna close voting Friday, probably, unless someone *needs* the weekend

[TemporalLich]

Edited Splash Damage to be 17p, adding another VT.

[Irrelephant11]

Edited Splash Damage to be 17p, adding another VT.

fixed

[Irrelephant11]

My votes, based on my thoughts on [how much fun I think I would have] + [1/2 the average amount of fun I think most people would have]:

Baton
Popcorn / Fibonacci
Fences / Splash
Balance / Team
Forkbomb / Mirror
Handler / Potato / Bundle
Planning / Forest
Mutiny

[BNL]

Fibonacci Mafia - Fite me
Forkbomb - I quite like the idea of incorprating a 'half-dead' state, as well as giving each player two half-kills instead
Splash Damage - This is one of the best multiball setup I've seen
Baton pass - Pretty plain but I really like the elimination mechanic
The Handler - I quite like this mechanic in retrospect
Mirror World - This 2-in-1 game is actually pretty cool upon thinking about it again. It's like hydras but both heads must play and will be judged separately.
Balance in the Neighbourhoods - The win condition seems quite screwy
True Popcorn - I think this is pretty basic for the setup but it's playable.
Mutiny - I don't think this new lynching mechanic is too different from normal Mafia
Hot Potato - I like the concept, but unfortunately I don't think it works.
Good fences make dead neighbours - Definitely too scumsided, and I don't think this is fun
Team Mafia - Is too ill defined
Bundle Mafia - Mechanic is not too interesting, also way too townsided
We will not stop planning - Way too complicted
Some Enchanted Forest - Just no

[Something_Smart]

We Will Not Stop Planning!
Mirror World
Team Mafia
Baton Pass
The Handler
Forkbomb
Balance in the Neighborhoods
Mutiny Mafia
Splash Damage
Fibonacci Mafia
True Popcorn
Hot Potato Mafia
Some Enchanted Forest
Good Fences Make Dead Neighbors
Bundle Mafia

Regardless of who wins, I would like to petition them to not put a player count restriction in the next challenge. I think that will both improve overall submission quality and increase the chance of the setups being run.