[MAY CHALLENGE]

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
popsofctown
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Post Post #100  (ISO)  » Tue May 21, 2019 8:39 am

Titanzar Mafia v4
Spoiler: "Setup"
2 Town Captains
1 Mafia Captain
8 Vanilla Townies
2 Mafia Goons


Someone has sabotaged the Titanzar luxury spacecraft, and in five days it will explode! The captains and passengers are prioritizing escape pods for the nearby, safe desert planet, but not everyone has the same criteria.

Each day, all players in the game collectively vote for a noncaptain player to receive an escape pod key (captain status is public). That player will be scheduled to escape the spaceship safely after day 5.

There are no nights on the spaceship.

After 5 escape pod keys have been granted on day 5, the escapees depart and the spaceship explodes, killing and flipping all captains and 5 players. The 5 escaped players land on the nearby desert planet and play standard game of mountainous mafia with a factional nightkill.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"

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Post Post #101  (ISO)  » Tue May 21, 2019 9:01 am

In post 97, Jingle wrote:Yes. Does the game end after Lynch 5 or is the last surviving player lynched? I assume the former, given the draw criteria, but it is worth asking.

5 lynches, each team has a 25% of a D3 win, a 12.5% chance of a D4 win, and a 6.25% chance of a D5 win. Therefore there's a 12.5% chance of a tie. Within that 12.5 is a slight preference towards a scumwin, but not a large one.

It ends after lynch 5. The last player is always town so I don't want to include that as a lynch
Hey all! Excited and nervous to play my first game with you!

You should check out Monthly Setup Challenges!

callforjudgement
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Post Post #102  (ISO)  » Tue May 21, 2019 9:19 am

Highly experimental. I've tried to balance this in my head but this is a pain to work out the EV for (or balance via other means), so there's a chance that the balance is very off. There's enough knobs to change that it's almost certainly possible to balance by changing numbers, maybe even at a range of sizes, but the restrictions that this was designed to meet are 2 and 4.

The idea behind this was to make a setup where only two of the main town skills were relevant; it requires townies to be good at finding scum and good at looking town, but being able to persuade other players of your reads is mostly irrelevant.

Connections
  • 6 Townies, 3 Mafia, no roles.
  • Nightless (also pretty much single-day; eliminations don't affect anything other than the player eliminated, so they play out more like a dayvig than a lynch).
  • No normal votes or lynches. Instead, players can "connect" with each other by mutual agreement (each connection has two players in, so a connection is formed when both players in it agree to it).
  • Connections are permanent once formed. A player can be in at most four connections.
  • When there's only one player left who's in 0 connections, that player is eliminated ("lynched") and flipped. Then the same applies to 1 connection, then 2 connections, (and then 3 connections, but at that point a win condition has necessarily been achieved).
  • If exactly two players are left at the minimum number of connections (e.g. two players left at 0 connections each), they are not allowed to connect with each other (and thus screw up the elimination schedule).
  • Connections to eliminated players are still valid, and can be used towards town's win condition, but eliminated players cannot form new connections (even if they haven't been flipped yet due to the moderator being offline).
  • Town wins (as a whole) if any of the six townies manages to connect with four other townies (i.e. survive to the end, using all of their four allotted connections on town). The Mafia win if this is no longer possible.
scum · scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn · town

Jingle
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Post Post #103  (ISO)  » Tue May 21, 2019 1:13 pm

I’ll run numbers tonight, CFJ. First thought though is that it’s probably breakable by organizing clear chains.

Edit: Thinking it over, it's not particularly breakable. I feel like it's probably slightly scumsided, but I'd encourage you to run it as a marathon over the weekend to get a bit of real data. Numbers are, as you mentioned, a nightmare.
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Post Post #104  (ISO)  » Thu May 23, 2019 12:47 pm

Titanzar Mafia v5
Spoiler: "Setup"
2 Town Captains
1 Mafia Captain
8 Vanilla Townies
2 Mafia Goons


Someone has sabotaged the Titanzar luxury spacecraft, and in five days it will explode! The captains and passengers are prioritizing escape pods for the nearby, safe desert planet, but not everyone has the same criteria.

Each day, all players in the game collectively vote for a noncaptain player to receive an escape pod key (captain status is public). That player will be scheduled to escape the spaceship safely after day 5.

There are no nights on the spaceship.

After 5 escape pod keys have been distributed, the players with keys escape towards the desert planet in escape pods. However, if at least 2 escape pods are manned by mafia, a terrible thing has happened. The mafia have enough pods to fly up against the other pods and ram them from both sides in a pincer action that can destroy the other 3 pods. The town loses.
If no mafia are in the escape pods, a beautiful thing has happened. A foundation of trust on the desert planet allows a garden of eden start to a new world, and they populate the planet with a wonderful, peaceful society. They don't even care about being rescued. Town wins.

If exactly one mafia are in the escape pods, something strange happens. The engine stops burning. Maybe someone had to spray oil on it every night for it to keep going or something. Both the escapees and the passengers use genetic scanning equipment, curious about the other group of travelers.

The game forks into two separate threads. The desert planet players can no longer talk to the ship players, and are informed of the alignment of all of the ship players. The ship players can no longer talk to desert planet players, and are informed of the alignment of all the desert planet players.
The scum captain immediately kills a captain. Both sets of 5 players play independent games of mafia, but the shipboard set has a scum treestump and town treestump in the form of the captains. Both games have a factional nightkill. Town wins only if they win both games of mafia.



I think this maybe needs a town PR
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"

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Post Post #105  (ISO)  » Thu May 23, 2019 12:57 pm

In post 102, callforjudgement wrote:Highly experimental. I've tried to balance this in my head but this is a pain to work out the EV for (or balance via other means), so there's a chance that the balance is very off. There's enough knobs to change that it's almost certainly possible to balance by changing numbers, maybe even at a range of sizes, but the restrictions that this was designed to meet are 2 and 4.

The idea behind this was to make a setup where only two of the main town skills were relevant; it requires townies to be good at finding scum and good at looking town, but being able to persuade other players of your reads is mostly irrelevant.

Connections
  • 6 Townies, 3 Mafia, no roles.
  • Nightless (also pretty much single-day; eliminations don't affect anything other than the player eliminated, so they play out more like a dayvig than a lynch).
  • No normal votes or lynches. Instead, players can "connect" with each other by mutual agreement (each connection has two players in, so a connection is formed when both players in it agree to it).
  • Connections are permanent once formed. A player can be in at most four connections.
  • When there's only one player left who's in 0 connections, that player is eliminated ("lynched") and flipped. Then the same applies to 1 connection, then 2 connections, (and then 3 connections, but at that point a win condition has necessarily been achieved).
  • If exactly two players are left at the minimum number of connections (e.g. two players left at 0 connections each), they are not allowed to connect with each other (and thus screw up the elimination schedule).
  • Connections to eliminated players are still valid, and can be used towards town's win condition, but eliminated players cannot form new connections (even if they haven't been flipped yet due to the moderator being offline).
  • Town wins (as a whole) if any of the six townies manages to connect with four other townies (i.e. survive to the end, using all of their four allotted connections on town). The Mafia win if this is no longer possible.


this seems very very difficult to win for scum
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.

Something_Smart
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Post Post #106  (ISO)  » Thu May 23, 2019 1:00 pm

@Pops-- What is the point of the captains in that setup?

@RC-- I was just about to say the opposite, lol. To win town needs a player to be obvtown enough to get the connections they want and also have near-perfect reads.
If you know how to pronounce "bourgeoisie," you're probably part of the bourgeoisie.

Self-contradiction isn't scummy.

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Post Post #107  (ISO)  » Thu May 23, 2019 1:35 pm

Wrt connections, each townie who makes 4 connections has a 7% chance of winning the game for town. Knowledge is gained whenever this process fails, in the vein of there being scum in a pool of more than 50% of the players. 6 players manage to make 4 connections.

If 2/3 of the lynched players are scum town wins. That’s a 23% chance; the other 77% of the time, there are between 3 and 4 chances at a town win. Assuming 4 for the sake of argument, that’s a 44% total town win rate. It’s 39 if you assume all scum will make 4 connections.

Additionally, scum can choose to pair to prevent themselves from being the 0 elimination, so 23 is actually a high number.
Last edited by Jingle on Thu May 23, 2019 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I know there are people in the world who do not love their fellow human beings, and I hate people like that!" - Tom Lehrer

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Post Post #108  (ISO)  » Thu May 23, 2019 1:51 pm

In post 106, Something_Smart wrote:@Pops-- What is the point of the captains in that setup?

Odds tbh. Having an even number of passengers allows the concurrent games to run on as similar a schedule as possible after the game is split. But I feel like mafia games tend to play out better when there's an odd number of players around. It's not even strictly speaking the case of ties, just the dynamics of cliques forming and one click being bigger than the other clique necessarily and stuff.

Possibly we could have the captains become players in phase 2? But I would want to add some kills to the ship to keep it on pace with the desert planet. in that case.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"

Jingle
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Post Post #109  (ISO)  » Thu May 23, 2019 3:13 pm

I think I preferred Titanzar with the variable number of town/scum captains and the yanking a player mechanics, tbh.

Both flavor wise and mechanically.

You could just do 0-2 Scum Captains and 1-3 Town Captains. Weight the two random alignment ones however you want.

And the 6, but town captain yanks one idea was pretty cool, tbh.

The new setup is very similar to BNL's branching mafia, which wasn't a bad setup by any means, but wasn't good enough to need the variation. Also, the whole first phase is pretty pointless, AND requires you to have 5 days that might as well not be there.
"I know there are people in the world who do not love their fellow human beings, and I hate people like that!" - Tom Lehrer

Irrelephant11
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Post Post #110  (ISO)  » Thu May 23, 2019 4:45 pm

Same
Hey all! Excited and nervous to play my first game with you!

You should check out Monthly Setup Challenges!

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Post Post #111  (ISO)  » Thu May 23, 2019 4:47 pm

In post 109, Jingle wrote:I think I preferred Titanzar with the variable number of town/scum captains and the yanking a player mechanics, tbh.

Both flavor wise and mechanically.

You could just do 0-2 Scum Captains and 1-3 Town Captains. Weight the two random alignment ones however you want.

And the 6, but town captain yanks one idea was pretty cool, tbh.

The new setup is very similar to BNL's branching mafia, which wasn't a bad setup by any means, but wasn't good enough to need the variation. Also, the whole first phase is pretty pointless, AND requires you to have 5 days that might as well not be there.

The yanking was actually specifically in there so that an unlyncher who has already given a key to a player has to continue to play to win. I recognized that I kinda liked the yanking mechanic in its own right but wasn't sure it was worth the extra day. Especially when you cautioned about too much gameplay without flips. But I kinda like the yanking a lot too. Being able to yank the day 1 key recipient after how they played later is pretty cool.
I really like unconfirmed alignment captains too.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"

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Post Post #112  (ISO)  » Fri May 24, 2019 5:20 pm

Spoiler: "Titanzar Mafia v6"
8 Vanilla Townie Passengers
2 Mafia Goon Passengers
1, 3, or 5 Randomly Aligned Captains (80/20, fully independent rolls)

Someone left the starboard side crew-only area unlocked last night, and in the morning, it was discovered that every starboard escape pod's fuel cell had been tossed into the engine in a nasty, unstoppable fire.
It's up to everyone on the ship to decide who lives and who dies. Captains must go down with the ship, but which passengers deserve to live? Surely not the arsonists.

Each day, all players collectively vote for one non-captain player to receive an escape pod key. That player will be scheduled to safely depart the ship to a nearby desert planet when the engine explodes. A player who has received a key continues to vote for other players. There is no night. The spaceship does not rotate about an axis, or manage any sort of movement at all;the engine is on fire, silly goose.

When six passengers have received keys, a random town aligned captain selects one escape pod to have its autopilot reprogrammed to an intersect with Haley's comet. When Haley's comet doesn't show up in the next star system people will realize something is up and send a rescue team. It is rather unfortunate for Haley's comet though. Oh, and the dead passenger. That too.
In the event there are no town aligned captains available for this step, the mod will promote a keyless town passenger to captain at random.

The five escapees land on the desert planet and all other players die, revealing their alignment. Then the five escapees play a standard game of mafia with a factional nightkill. Players who died on the spaceship are still able to achieve their wincon posthumously.

Here is where I'm at with it.
You could ban hydras from the passenger slots but not the captain slots, if you wanted to.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"

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Post Post #113  (ISO)  » Wed May 29, 2019 9:36 am

Voting time?

Weird that there were so few setups this time around
Hey all! Excited and nervous to play my first game with you!

You should check out Monthly Setup Challenges!

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Post Post #114  (ISO)  » Wed May 29, 2019 9:36 am

then again it's the month of graduations and shifting schedules for students, so maybe not
Hey all! Excited and nervous to play my first game with you!

You should check out Monthly Setup Challenges!

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Post Post #115  (ISO)  » Wed May 29, 2019 9:45 am

Oh yeah, I should post the updated version of my setup:

Undertale Semi-Open2 Mafia Goons
8 Vanilla Townies
1 Town Character (One randomly chosen out of six options that will be explained later)

Each day, town must vote to Kill one player (HURT: or VOTE: ) or Spare one player (HEAL: ). Votes are made to either Kill a specific player or Spare a specific player, and a player can only have one vote total across both options. Players may vote to spare themselves. (They may also vote to kill themselves, if you're into that sort of thing.) This is mandatory so if no majority is reached on either option by deadline, plurality wins out. The mafia can kill a player each night, prior to Night 4. (Obviously, this does not count as a capital-K Kill for any other mechanics.)

If a player is Killed, their role is revealed and they take no further part in the game.

If a player is Spared, their role is not revealed, and they are temporarily removed from the game and added to a separate Spared PT. However, they may possibly rejoin the game, if the Core is reached. If a mafia member is spared, they may continue to talk in the mafia chat in addition to the Spared PT.

If both mafia members are Killed, town immediately wins. If both mafia members are Spared before the Core, mafia immediately wins. Otherwise, the Core is reached immediately after the end of Day 4. At this point, one of three things will happen:

Pacifist Route: If no players were Killed, the game enters the Pacifist Ending. There is no Night 4 kill. If all four Spared players were town, town immediately wins. Otherwise, all players still in the game must vote to Spare a fifth player, after which all the non-Spared players are immediately removed from the game without flipping, and the Spared players are returned to the game. The mafia kill one (Spared) player, and then the game then continues with only the remaining Spared players alive.

Neutral Route: If at least one player was Spared and at least one player was Killed, the game enters the Neutral Ending. All Spared players rejoin the game, and the number of Spared mafia members (but not their identities) is revealed. The mafia get one kill on Night 4, plus one more if a mafia member was Spared. If this causes mafia to gain parity they win immediately, otherwise, the game continues with the previous living players and the Spared players both alive.

Genocide Route: If no players were Spared, the game enters the Genocide Ending. The player with the most LOVE-- that is, the player who was on the most wagons that led to a Kill-- is determined, and the alignment of this player is publicly revealed. (For tiebreaks, see the footnote*) There is no Night 4 kill. The game continues with no further change.

After the Core is reached, regardless of the ending, the game will continue as a normal game of mafia, with lynches and nightkills, and no-lynching allowed. Mafia win at parity, town win by eliminating all mafia. (In the Pacifist Route lynching can be reflavored as Saving because, you know, Pacifist.)


The possible Town Characters are:
  • Toriel: As long as no player has been Killed, Toriel can protect another player from a kill each night before the Core is reached. If Toriel protects a player from a kill in this way, she can no longer use her ability.
  • Alphys: If the Core is reached in a Pacifist Route and Alphys is still in the game or has been spared, she can choose another player still in the game to be Spared during the same phase as the mafia are choosing their kill, causing the Pacifist Ending to be played out with five players instead of four. If Alphys was Spared but is killed during this phase, her action fails. If the second mafia member is spared this way, or if a mafia member is spared upon reaching the Core but Alphys is in the game and not dead, it does not cause an immediate mafia win.
  • Papyrus: On each even night, if at least one player has been Spared and at least one player has been Killed, Papyrus can target a player and learn their alignment.
  • Asgore: If the Core is reached in a Neutral Route and Asgore is still in the game, he may jailkeep one player each night (starting Night 5).
  • Undyne: On Night 2, if no player has been Spared, Undyne may choose any player, including herself, to be permanently bulletproof. They are not informed of this. This goes away if a player is ever Spared, or when the Core is reached.
  • sans: If the Core is reached in a Genocide Route and Sans is still in the game, he can immediately kill one player, after the player with the most LOVE is determined but before their alignment is revealed.

*LOVE tiebreaks between players on the same number of wagons are: Lowest sum of their positions on the wagons -> On the earliest lynch wagon -> On the earlier position on the earliest Kill wagon they are on. This should resolve all LOVE ties.
If you know how to pronounce "bourgeoisie," you're probably part of the bourgeoisie.

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Post Post #116  (ISO)  » Wed May 29, 2019 9:59 pm

How is May already over? WTF kinda sorcery is this?


Dargon Karpturer v3 TempLich - I actually kinda dig the setup. I'm not convinced it's wholly balanced, but I think it definitely deserves to be run.
Hidden Reversi Jingle - Quick and dirty. probably biased. ;)
Titanzar v6 pops - Interesting way to handle a mostly vanilla setup while keeping the endgame exciting. Probably great for those weirdos that like mountainous. Weirdos.
Will o/t People Ircher - Interesting mutation. Definitely playable.
Undertale S_S - I still think this needs more polish before being playable, but I haven't had the time to work on how to do so. :(
Connections cfj - I think this is probably still scumsided? Would probably play in a marathon setting though.
Defender BNL - Public PR is always a plus, but it's kinda boring for an open, tbh. Not much going on.
Coronation 2 Rainn - This is a strictly better setup than F&I imo. OTOH, fuck F&I.
Chaos V Order Relly - Functional, but meh.
Wolves NK15 - Seems really scumsided, tbh.
Last edited by Jingle on Thu May 30, 2019 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #117  (ISO)  » Thu May 30, 2019 10:02 am

Here is a cheat sheet of all submissions. I don't think I missed anybody. In most cases this was the latest submission any player gave, but in Rainn's case s/he posted a v1, 2, and 3 and agreed with comments about v2 being the best submission then became kind of scarce, so voting on v2 seems most appropriate.
Spoiler: "Something_Smart"
In post 115, Something_Smart wrote:Oh yeah, I should post the updated version of my setup:

Undertale Semi-Open2 Mafia Goons
8 Vanilla Townies
1 Town Character (One randomly chosen out of six options that will be explained later)

Each day, town must vote to Kill one player (HURT: or VOTE: ) or Spare one player (HEAL: ). Votes are made to either Kill a specific player or Spare a specific player, and a player can only have one vote total across both options. Players may vote to spare themselves. (They may also vote to kill themselves, if you're into that sort of thing.) This is mandatory so if no majority is reached on either option by deadline, plurality wins out. The mafia can kill a player each night, prior to Night 4. (Obviously, this does not count as a capital-K Kill for any other mechanics.)

If a player is Killed, their role is revealed and they take no further part in the game.

If a player is Spared, their role is not revealed, and they are temporarily removed from the game and added to a separate Spared PT. However, they may possibly rejoin the game, if the Core is reached. If a mafia member is spared, they may continue to talk in the mafia chat in addition to the Spared PT.

If both mafia members are Killed, town immediately wins. If both mafia members are Spared before the Core, mafia immediately wins. Otherwise, the Core is reached immediately after the end of Day 4. At this point, one of three things will happen:

Pacifist Route: If no players were Killed, the game enters the Pacifist Ending. There is no Night 4 kill. If all four Spared players were town, town immediately wins. Otherwise, all players still in the game must vote to Spare a fifth player, after which all the non-Spared players are immediately removed from the game without flipping, and the Spared players are returned to the game. The mafia kill one (Spared) player, and then the game then continues with only the remaining Spared players alive.

Neutral Route: If at least one player was Spared and at least one player was Killed, the game enters the Neutral Ending. All Spared players rejoin the game, and the number of Spared mafia members (but not their identities) is revealed. The mafia get one kill on Night 4, plus one more if a mafia member was Spared. If this causes mafia to gain parity they win immediately, otherwise, the game continues with the previous living players and the Spared players both alive.

Genocide Route: If no players were Spared, the game enters the Genocide Ending. The player with the most LOVE-- that is, the player who was on the most wagons that led to a Kill-- is determined, and the alignment of this player is publicly revealed. (For tiebreaks, see the footnote*) There is no Night 4 kill. The game continues with no further change.

After the Core is reached, regardless of the ending, the game will continue as a normal game of mafia, with lynches and nightkills, and no-lynching allowed. Mafia win at parity, town win by eliminating all mafia. (In the Pacifist Route lynching can be reflavored as Saving because, you know, Pacifist.)


The possible Town Characters are:
  • Toriel: As long as no player has been Killed, Toriel can protect another player from a kill each night before the Core is reached. If Toriel protects a player from a kill in this way, she can no longer use her ability.
  • Alphys: If the Core is reached in a Pacifist Route and Alphys is still in the game or has been spared, she can choose another player still in the game to be Spared during the same phase as the mafia are choosing their kill, causing the Pacifist Ending to be played out with five players instead of four. If Alphys was Spared but is killed during this phase, her action fails. If the second mafia member is spared this way, or if a mafia member is spared upon reaching the Core but Alphys is in the game and not dead, it does not cause an immediate mafia win.
  • Papyrus: On each even night, if at least one player has been Spared and at least one player has been Killed, Papyrus can target a player and learn their alignment.
  • Asgore: If the Core is reached in a Neutral Route and Asgore is still in the game, he may jailkeep one player each night (starting Night 5).
  • Undyne: On Night 2, if no player has been Spared, Undyne may choose any player, including herself, to be permanently bulletproof. They are not informed of this. This goes away if a player is ever Spared, or when the Core is reached.
  • sans: If the Core is reached in a Genocide Route and Sans is still in the game, he can immediately kill one player, after the player with the most LOVE is determined but before their alignment is revealed.

*LOVE tiebreaks between players on the same number of wagons are: Lowest sum of their positions on the wagons -> On the earliest lynch wagon -> On the earlier position on the earliest Kill wagon they are on. This should resolve all LOVE ties.

Spoiler: "cfj"
In post 102, callforjudgement wrote:
Connections
  • 6 Townies, 3 Mafia, no roles.
  • Nightless (also pretty much single-day; eliminations don't affect anything other than the player eliminated, so they play out more like a dayvig than a lynch).
  • No normal votes or lynches. Instead, players can "connect" with each other by mutual agreement (each connection has two players in, so a connection is formed when both players in it agree to it).
  • Connections are permanent once formed. A player can be in at most four connections.
  • When there's only one player left who's in 0 connections, that player is eliminated ("lynched") and flipped. Then the same applies to 1 connection, then 2 connections, (and then 3 connections, but at that point a win condition has necessarily been achieved).
  • If exactly two players are left at the minimum number of connections (e.g. two players left at 0 connections each), they are not allowed to connect with each other (and thus screw up the elimination schedule).
  • Connections to eliminated players are still valid, and can be used towards town's win condition, but eliminated players cannot form new connections (even if they haven't been flipped yet due to the moderator being offline).
  • Town wins (as a whole) if any of the six townies manages to connect with four other townies (i.e. survive to the end, using all of their four allotted connections on town). The Mafia win if this is no longer possible.

Spoiler: "Irrelephant"
In post 96, Irrelephant11 wrote:
chaos vs. order5 Order Goons
6 Chaos Townies

During the day, lynch a player
During the night, if Order is equal to Chaos, one goon must flee. Otherwise mafia nightkill a townie.

Chaos town wins by consecutively lynching 3 players of alternating alignments
Order scum wins by consecutively lynching 3 players of the same alignment.

In a draw, the team that was lynched more often loses.


Is this more balanced? Working on it...


Spoiler: "BulletNLynchproof"
In post 74, BulletNLynchproof wrote:Gonna try a simple setup, modified from one I’ve used:
The Defender2 Mafia Goons
7 Vanilla Townies

Every Day, apart from voting for the lynch, players can also vote for a Defender. The Defender becomes a Bulletproof deflector for the Night.


Spoiler: "Rainn"
In post 52, Rainn wrote:
Coronation Ceremony V211 players

7 Monarchists
2 Revolutionary Lovers
2 Anarchist Lovers

The game is nightless, and there is no factional kill.

During the the first, second and fourth day, majority lynches may happen.

During the third and fifth day, a coronation ceremony may happen and is decided by majority voting or plurality voting, effectively crowning a player.

If no one receives a crow (no votes), the anarchists wins, and if the members of the anarchist faction are no longer alive, the revolutionaries win. If there is a equal amount of votes to different players, the first one to achieve that number of votes and that has maintained it since achieved is the one effectively crowned.

If a monarchist is crowned, they are effectively turned into an innocent child and confirmed to be aligned with the town. If either a revolutionary or anarchist is crowned, their respective faction wins and end the game.

A player/slot cannot be crowned twice.

Lovers are confirmed to have day chat.

The Monarchists win when either all anarchists and revolutionaries are dead, or when two monarchists have been crowned (the player most voted during a ceremony day).

The Anarchists or Revolutionaries win either if one of them is crowned, or when the number of members of the anti-town factions are equal or higher than the number of pro-town players alive.

During the duration of any day (between the day start until the deadline/last vote for a majority vote), any anti-town faction that still have both members alive can request and name one of themselves to escape the country. If there is such request, if the player is still alive during the start of the next day, he "escapes", effectively leaving the game. Only one member of each anti-town faction may escape.

If a request for escape is requested, it cannot, under any circumstances, be retracted or modified/changed.

Any request for escape when sent to the moderator must already have selected a name or it's considered an invalid request.

Spoiler: "Jingle"
In post 51, Jingle wrote:
Hidden Reversi Mafia3 Goons
10 VT

Each day, players choose White or Black. Standard lynching. All players with the more popular choice are lynched and all choices are revealed at the beginning of the next day. Each night, scum chooses a player to nightkill. White Flag.

Spoiler: "TemporalLich"
In post 35, TemporalLich wrote:
Dragon Capturer v311 players

1 Dragon
2 Mafia Goons
8 Vanilla Townies

In addition to voting for lynches, the Town must also vote to Capture (jailkeep) a player. Capturing is by plurality vote and is decided when the lynch is decided.

A Capture vote can either use bold e.g. CAPTURE: TemporalLich or hurt tags e.g. HURT: TemporalLich

You can't vote to lynch and Capture the same player.

In addition to the factional nightkill, the Mafia may attempt a factional Capture. The mafia may multitask.

If the Mafia Captures the Dragon with the factional Capture, the Dragon exits the game in a loss and the Mafia gets a 1-shot daykill to be used in the Mafia PT.

The Dragon instantly loses if Captured. The Dragon wins if the game ends before this happens or the Dragon dies.

Mafia win when they outnumber Town or equal Town.

Town win when the Mafia are dead or the Dragon is Captured by the Capture vote.

Mafia may privately communicate at any time.

Spoiler: "NotKnown15"
In post 33, Not Known 15 wrote:
Wolves
10 Vanilla Townies
3 Werewolf Goons
1 Evil Townie
Every day, the Town selects an executioner, and a Guard.(they cannot select someone for both)
Guards are only guards for one night.
The votes for Executioner are public, and plurality-based. The votes for Guard are private, and majority-based(no majority no guard)
The executioner selects the lynch target, and a second guard(privately).
If the lynch target and the executioner are both werewolves, the lynch fails.
Each night, the werewolves attack. The Evil Townie turns into a Werewolf when attacked at night instead of dying. However, Town will be informed about the identity of the former Evil Townie next day... unless the Evil Townie was a Guard.
The Guard will defend themselves if they are visited, resulting in the death of both the Guard and the Werewolf, unless they are the Evil Townie, who gets recruited into the Werewolves without being outed. If this happens to the Guard selected by the executioner, then they cannot be replaced.
If two guards are Werewolves(Evil Townie doesn't count) the Werewolves win.
The Evil Townie wins with the Werewolves.



Spoiler: "Ircher"
In post 17, Ircher wrote:Setup: Will of the People
6x Vanilla Townie
2x Mafia Goon

This setup is nightless. Therefore, the EV is exactly 50% according to the Nightless Expectation Rule.

Instead of the typical majority lynches, lynches are decided by using the condorcet system; see this link for more information. Basically, the Condorcet winner is the one who wins the most 1v1 matches against the other candidates. One of the advantages of this method over simple majority voting is that it accounts for 2nd, 3rd, etc. picks as well as one's top picks. So if you think Tom and Jerry are both scum, you don't have to choose to vote one over the other. (You still have to rank them, but inverting 1st and 2nd place is probably not going to make a huge difference in the long-run.) Instead, you can simply have both towards the top of your list, and you can rest assured those preferences are being accounted for.

(Note: As determining the winner is generally tough, you don't have to do it yourself. There should be online calculators for this thing; here's one I found from Googling.)

Because attempting to track all of these votes as the game progresses by hand is rather annoying (and difficult), the moderator instead only tracks the number of players who wish to end the day earlier. Once the day is over, the game enters a special Twilight phase where players send the moderator a ranked list of their choices for the lynch, including themselves (i.e.: it must have the entire player list), (with the person they want lynched most at the top). Players that fail to submit a list in time rank players in the order of the player list (i.e.: not random). The moderator then determines the Condorcet winner (likely using a calculator of some sort) and posts the lynch as well as everyone's lists. In the case of a tie or an undeterminable winner, no lynch occurs, but the moderator should still post everyone's lists. Then, the next day begin. Standard win conditions apply.

If 50% EV is too high, we can change the setup's composition. We could do something like 7 town and 3 scum, which has an EV of 40% according to the Nightless Expectation Rule.



In post 112, popsofctown wrote:
Spoiler: "Titanzar Mafia v6"
8 Vanilla Townie Passengers
2 Mafia Goon Passengers
1, 3, or 5 Randomly Aligned Captains (80/20, fully independent rolls)

Someone left the starboard side crew-only area unlocked last night, and in the morning, it was discovered that every starboard escape pod's fuel cell had been tossed into the engine in a nasty, unstoppable fire.
It's up to everyone on the ship to decide who lives and who dies. Captains must go down with the ship, but which passengers deserve to live? Surely not the arsonists.

Each day, all players collectively vote for one non-captain player to receive an escape pod key. That player will be scheduled to safely depart the ship to a nearby desert planet when the engine explodes. A player who has received a key continues to vote for other players. There is no night. The spaceship does not rotate about an axis, or manage any sort of movement at all;the engine is on fire, silly goose.

When six passengers have received keys, a random town aligned captain selects one escape pod to have its autopilot reprogrammed to an intersect with Haley's comet. When Haley's comet doesn't show up in the next star system people will realize something is up and send a rescue team. It is rather unfortunate for Haley's comet though. Oh, and the dead passenger. That too.
In the event there are no town aligned captains available for this step, the mod will promote a keyless town passenger to captain at random.

The five escapees land on the desert planet and all other players die, revealing their alignment. Then the five escapees play a standard game of mafia with a factional nightkill. Players who died on the spaceship are still able to achieve their wincon posthumously.

"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"

popsofctown
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Post Post #118  (ISO)  » Thu May 30, 2019 10:03 am

It looks like Jingle voted on Coronation 3 though
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"

callforjudgement
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Post Post #119  (ISO)  » Thu May 30, 2019 10:39 am

My votes and comments, in order:

Connections: My setup. I think it's a good idea. The balance is almost certainly off (I'm guessing it's mildly scumsided, but have seen wildly varying balance estimations in the thread so far; it may well depend on who's playing!).
Chaos vs. Order: I think this works (and it's nice that the EV is obviously just slightly short of 50%, where it normally would be for a game where scum has kills). Scum have a lot of control over the lynch vote; it's unclear what effect on setups that tends to have.
Coronation Ceremony v2: This actually plays out pretty similarly to Chaos vs. Order (try to lynch a player of a specific alignment on a specific day), the main differences being that the schedule is fixed and that it's multiball. Balance is less obvious in this case (it normally is with multiball involved). I'm not convinced it's fun to play as scum, but maybe it is.
The Defender: Pretty simple and basic. This is similar to "town just vote two people to be bulletproof", but with more WIFOM involved. It's underspecified in some cases (e.g. how do endgames worK?), but that's easily fixable.
Undertale Semi-Open: I'm not sure I really like the interaction between the power roles and the path-choosing mechanic. It's like playing a semi-open made out of three radically different setups, and you don't know which when you sign up to play but find out once you're there. If you remove the power roles (or make them path-neutral) the setup will probably appeal to more players.
Will of the People: Setups whose only special mechanic is "unusual/weird voting system" normally degenerate into town leashing the voting system in order to agree on a lynch target first, and then all vote the same way. So this seems like 6:2 nightless but with a lot of extra logistical complexity.
Titanzar Mafia v6: I suspect this is town-sided; it's very nearly a Nightless, and 8:2 is too much for that. Having no flips for five days seems annoying, too. The captains are basically alignment-unknown treestumps, which is an interesting role but would probably work better in a different setup.
Wolves: I'm not sure if all the complexity here really benefits the setup much. The Evil Townie seems almost impossible to recruit, for example (if scum figure out who it is it's rather easier, but I don't see how they could know without town also knowing). I imagine it's correct for town to leash much of the mechanics here; not sure how many of them.
Dragon Capturer: Winning as the Dragon seems far too luck-based.
Hidden Reversi: Broken for town: just have every player choose a random colour (without claiming it). If scum all choose the same colour, it'll almost certainly be the most popular, wiping the scum out (and yet scum will be forced into this after a D1 scum lynch, if it happens, so lynching scum makes things even more townsided). So scum split 2:1. There's still a >50% chance two scum die (again, winning for town, as it's White Flag). The rest of the time the setup probably ends up at 3:2, which is still winnable for town, so town are doing pretty well in every scenario.
scum · scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn · town

popsofctown
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Post Post #120  (ISO)  » Thu May 30, 2019 11:04 am

Undertale
Coronation Ceremony V2
Connections
Dragon Capturer
Titanzar Mafia v6
Will of the People
Hidden Reversi
Defender
Wolves
Chaos vs. Order
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"

TemporalLich
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Post Post #121  (ISO)  » Fri May 31, 2019 3:23 am

Here is my vote:

Dragon Capturer (TL) - Pure nepotism, like how the Dragon feels chaotic myself.
Chaos vs Order (Relly) - Hmm, an interesting setup. I want to see this played at least once, I can't wait to see what weird strategies come out of this setup.
Undertale Semi-Open (S_S) - A great Mini Theme idea, sparing seems strong though. Pretty faithful to Undertale.
Connections (CFJ) - Kinda feels scumsided, but seems fun and interesting. I like the townreads mattering and scum being able to deepwolf well.
Titanzar Mafia (pops) - I like the idea of a reverse nightless Mafia game leading to a mountainous Mafia game.
The Defender (BNL) - Interesting idea but feels too vanilla.
Coronation Ceremony (Rainn) - Not convinced being an Anarchist is fun, but seems alright.
Will of the People (Ircher) - Pretty sure this just feels like vanilla Nightless.
Wolves (NK15) - I don't understand this setup. It feels wrong to me, and what even is "they cannot be replaced" supposed to mean?
Hidden Reversi Mafia (Jingle) - Scorched Earth on D1. Also pretty sure this is broken and swingy.
time will end

Something_Smart
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Post Post #122  (ISO)  » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:36 pm

Undertale - definitely not perfect but I am really feeling the concept. Anyone who wants to come to the thread for this setup is welcome, I may rework the PR's to be less path-dependent.
Connections - the lynch mechanic feels clunky and just thrown in to meet the requirements, but other than that the idea is pretty innovative.
Dragon Capturer - balance is a bit odd especially for the dragon who seems to have a really hard time of it. But the idea's cool and it's probably fun to play all three factions.
Chaos vs Order - interesting mix of regular mafia and vote for town.
Coronation Ceremony - also an interesting mix of regular mafia and vote for town, but multiball.
Hidden Reversi - wat. I doubt it's broken but I also bet it's kinda annoying.
Titanzar - pretty much a more convoluted vote for town, not bad but it probably needs some more interactive mechanics.
Will of the People - very likely will not play out much differently from 6:2 nightless.
The Defender - wifomy. It will probably feel bad for town who has no recourse to deal with deepwolves and scum who can lose the game entirely by killing the wrong person.
Wolves - VERY wifomy, and seems like town has almost no power. The voted-on guard is pretty much going to be public or majority will never be reached, so it actually plays out like Defender with one public unkillable person and one secret person who's bad for scum to kill. Except... it's 10:4, and due to the executioner mechanic scum have significant yolobomb potential.
If you know how to pronounce "bourgeoisie," you're probably part of the bourgeoisie.

Self-contradiction isn't scummy.

callforjudgement
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Post Post #123  (ISO)  » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:36 pm

In post 122, Something_Smart wrote:Connections - the lynch mechanic feels clunky and just thrown in to meet the requirements, but other than that the idea is pretty innovative.

It's there to have some way to produce flips, so that town aren't playing entirely no-reveal. Meeting the requirements was just a bonus.
scum · scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn · town

Jingle
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Post Post #124  (ISO)  » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:31 pm

In post 119, callforjudgement wrote:Hidden Reversi: Broken for town: just have every player choose a random colour (without claiming it). If scum all choose the same colour, it'll almost certainly be the most popular, wiping the scum out (and yet scum will be forced into this after a D1 scum lynch, if it happens, so lynching scum makes things even more townsided). So scum split 2:1. There's still a >50% chance two scum die (again, winning for town, as it's White Flag). The rest of the time the setup probably ends up at 3:2, which is still winnable for town, so town are doing pretty well in every scenario.


Hmmm. Not to be included with voting, but probably better to drop white flag from the setup, tbh. I think it was a holdover from considering the setup without an actual lynch.
"I know there are people in the world who do not love their fellow human beings, and I hate people like that!" - Tom Lehrer

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