[SETUP] White Knight

[BNL]

2 Mafia
7 Townies

Compulsive lynch and kill.

Not sure if this is necessary
A town lynch cannot have both scum on it, otherwise town wins immediately.

There is an obvious variation of the game, where at least one scum must be

on

the lynch. I don't know which is more fun or balanced.

Also, I considered having Mafia's vote restriction to apply even with only one scum alive. I ruled this out as I believe it makes the game more swingy, and I think I might have to ban self-voting in some cases, but I'd like someone to check this for me.

[RadiantCowbells]

Interesting setup

[TDC]

What hinders town on agreeing a lynch with unofficial votes and then popcorn designating voters to drastically reduce the possible scum-team pool?

[BNL]

That is indeed part of the setup.

I don’t think it will make town OP though.

[RadiantCowbells]

i think this is possibly my favorite setup i've seen come out of the open discussion

would love to see it run at some point

[TDC]

How is it not overpowered. Town gets to put players into two pools of their choosing. Anyone who objects to his placement is scum. Mod confirms exactly one scum in each pool.
I cannot see how this game is not solved D2.

[BNL]

No... there must be at most one scum

on

the lynch with both scum alive.

Only in the variation can must have at most one scum off the lynch. Both are not combined.

[TDC]

Hmm, misunderstood it then. Still clears four people of being scum together. Wise selection of these four offers lots of info for free.

[Irrelephant11]

Well... not “free”
Costs two townies (lynch and nightkill)

[RadiantCowbells]

it's really not that simple
say someone refuses to vote b/c their scumbuddy is also on the wagon and they get lynched themselves
you're now in 3 cleared 4 uncleared
but what if they refused to vote but their scumbuddy wasn't on the wagon?

if scum have no plan or strategy then scum will get roflstomped but despite the argument being makeable that it's a day to day coalition of 4 players to solve, it's really not that simple

[RadiantCowbells]

you're also assuming that town won't refuse to vote their townreads in a lot of situations

don't treat mafia like a game where town are proactive and scum are reactive because that already assumes that scum deserve to lose

[RadiantCowbells]

hell if 1 scum literally claims scum d1 the game balance is at worst 6v1

[Irrelephant11]

I think his point was just that if a townie is lynched then a bunch of scumteams get ruled out
It’s information but not a mind blowing amount and it comes at a cost

[TDC]

My point is that it is orthogonal info to the day play, if the town decoupled the lynch decision from the official lynch wagon.

[popsofctown]

Yes, the town kind of get to test totally orthogonal theories, like, "irrelephant seems independently scummy, I want him to die, but I am kind of suspicious of the manner in which RadiantCowbells adopted singletonking's reasoning for attacking irrelephant. Therefore after singletonking popcorns me to vote on the wagon I am going to popcorn vote RadiantCowbells to also participate."
But, like, is that so bad? It's surely not more orthogonal than investigative roles. (if there's a religion that believes in abolishing all investigative roles from mafia I might want to pay it a tithe though)

[TDC]

I guess the difference is that investigative results are usually not mod confirmed.

[popsofctown]

You are living in a strange beautiful world where the newbie setup isn't full of sane cops, zero millers, and zero godfathers.

[TDC]

Cop can be counter claimed. Game is still running cannot.

[TDC]

I mean I see where you are coming from, it binds players alignments together, but even if you think of it as a cop, it can't be night killed.

[popsofctown]

Deceased cops and masons who have crumbed results or partners well can't be counterclaimed so there's that.

[TDC]

But the mechanic produces new results every day. I'm pretty sure this needs more scum or less town to not be solved with a very low number of good reads.

[popsofctown]

Oh, sure, wanting to tweak the numbers is fine, I thought you were objecting to the mechanic categorically.

I share the concern I think this might need to be 8-3 or something.

[Creature]

I think this setup relies on scum sacrificing one of themselves tbh.

[callforjudgement]

In the original version, where there must be at most one scum on the D1 lynch wagon (assuming it hits a townie), the main upshot for town that I see is that if scum on the D1 wagon is ever lynched, everyone else on the D1 wagon is cleared. However, there might be no scum on the D1 wagon at all.

This looks like a pretty good setup! My main concern is that after a scum lynch D1, the mechanic does nothing and the game likely turns into a slog. I'm wondering if it works better as a Mini than a Micro (this doesn't work with normal lynch/nightkill/victory rules because there are no numbers that work, but you could probably make it work as White Flag).

[singletonking]

I'm thinking of ways to balbce this setup without incentivising the Day 1 bus too much