On Day One, the town may give up to one player Night 1 Bulletproof. There isn't a lynch day 1.
Night One, the mafia can neither no-kill nor target the bulletproof player.
On the verge of the nightkill victim's death, that mod has that player investigate another player, then vig another player (this can be compressed into one PM with an if X then Y statement).
If the vig victim is mafia aligned, this is over, but if the vig victim is town-aligned, this chain repeats indefinitely.
Sucks to be the nightkill victim
Also what happens after
Like, doesn't this guarantee a mafia dies
Does the vig victim die
Well normally the nightkill victim dies with no further input regarding the game. So compared to like a newbie setup this setup makes being nightkilled N1 suck slightly less.
This setup does guarantee that a mafia dies.
All the vig victims die, which means they are unable to report the cop investigate.
Although I guess this does have d1 mass hypoclaim
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
You only get one confirmed innocent off the hypoclaims I think. Which is not too many for scum to NK later so inconsequential. But I think people prefer when they don't have to bother hypoclaiming during L-1
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
In post 101, popsofctown wrote:You only get one confirmed innocent off the hypoclaims I think. Which is not too many for scum to NK later so inconsequential. But I think people prefer when they don't have to bother hypoclaiming during L-1
Everyone investigates in a chain, except BP is ignored(2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-2). Vig targets are not claimed, and based on scumreads.
Night 1:
1 is Bulletproof and town 2 is Mafia. 4 is Mafia. 3,5,6,7,8,9,10 are town.
Now Mafia has two options:
-kill 10 or 3 and get vengekilled ASAP.
Result:
7vs 1!
-kill someone else. In this case the following can happen:
5 is killed. They invest 6. Then they vig 9. 9 invests 10, then vigs 7. 7 invests 8 and vigs 3. 3 invests 4 and vigs 4.
Result: Of 8 town 4 are dead, as is one mafia.
4 town
1 mafia.
Of these, 6, 10, and 8 are conftown.
Game over!
Good break.
I rescind String of Disappearances mafia in favor of Split Push mafia for now.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
The mafia factional nightkill is compulsive.
Each day starts with players only allowed to post naked votes regarding the Savage Mutation power (this restriction includes factional PTs). If "Don't Mutate" receives a majority or 2 real days pass, the power is saved, perhaps to be used on another day. If "Mutate: Playername" receives a majority, that player becomes a
3-nights-to-go-poisoned, unlynchable, bulletproof, voteless third party savage mutant with a 3-shot factional nightkill
. That player loses all posting privileges, even voting, for the rest of the game. If that player was previously town, that player's win condition becomes
"Fennecbeast: You win the game and leave the game when you kill a member of the mafia."
If that player was previously mafia, that player's win condition becomes
"Sharktobeast:You win the game and leave the game just before shooting when you target the same player at night that the mafia targetted"
The Savage Mutation power becomes unavailable after it has been used once, or after a Scum Mad Scientist is lynched.
After the decision regarding the power, players can post opinions that may persuade the up-to-one savage mutant in the mutant's silence, but more importantly posts opinions about a standard majority lynch.
After a
Sharktobeast
win, the remaining shots are fired at townies at random over the remainder of the nights.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Each Day, the Town votes to lynch two players. Town win on any day by lynching a pair of Mafia. Otherwise, alignments are not immediately [edit]or ever[/edit] revealed. Instead, at Night, the Mafia chooses two players to kill, with the restriction that exactly 1 of the 4 lynched/killed players is Mafia.
After Day 3, there is no Night. Instead, if the Town has failed to lynch even a single Mafia out of the six players chosen, scum win immediately.
Otherwise, the game resets to Day 1 and all players are again alive.
If after the second Day 3 town has not won by lynching a pair of Mafia, scum win.
With completely random choices both days, EV is 40.63%. However, about 70% of games will get to the second cycle, and town will do a bit better than random in these games by taking into account the information from the first cycle. For example, the probability of a first cycle Day 1 win is 1/13, but on the second cycle Day 1 town knows that 2 of the last 5 players were Mafia and one of those pairs is already ruled out so they can win 1/9 by picking another pair from that group. I suspect the true EV is pretty close to 50%, maybe eventually I'll work out all the details.
(This is an open/vanilla version of a Tragedy Looper or Majora's Mask game which has been bouncing around in my head for a while.)
Each Day, the Town votes to lynch two players. Town win on any day by lynching a pair of Mafia. Otherwise, alignments are not immediately [edit]or ever[/edit] revealed. Instead, at Night, the Mafia chooses two players to kill, with the restriction that exactly 1 of the 4 lynched/killed players is Mafia.
After Day 3, there is no Night. Instead, if the Town has failed to lynch even a single Mafia out of the six players chosen, scum win immediately.
Otherwise, the game resets to Day 1 and all players are again alive.
If after the second Day 3 town has not won by lynching a pair of Mafia, scum win.
With completely random choices both days, EV is 40.63%. However, about 70% of games will get to the second cycle, and town will do a bit better than random in these games by taking into account the information from the first cycle. For example, the probability of a first cycle Day 1 win is 1/13, but on the second cycle Day 1 town knows that 2 of the last 5 players were Mafia and one of those pairs is already ruled out so they can win 1/9 by picking another pair from that group. I suspect the true EV is pretty close to 50%, maybe eventually I'll work out all the details.
(This is an open/vanilla version of a Tragedy Looper or Majora's Mask game which has been bouncing around in my head for a while.)
I also wanted to make a Majora's mask game but couldn't get it to work. I thought about Majora's mask Midway through the post. It looks like a really neat setup!
I don't go for colored flag setups as a personal preference though
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Each Day, the Town votes to lynch two players. Town win on any day by lynching a pair of Mafia. Otherwise, alignments are not immediately [edit]or ever[/edit] revealed. Instead, at Night, the Mafia chooses two players to kill, with the restriction that exactly 1 of the 4 lynched/killed players is Mafia.
After Day 3, there is no Night. Instead, if the Town has failed to lynch even a single Mafia out of the six players chosen, scum win immediately.
Otherwise, the game resets to Day 1 and all players are again alive.
If after the second Day 3 town has not won by lynching a pair of Mafia, scum win.
With completely random choices both days, EV is 40.63%. However, about 70% of games will get to the second cycle, and town will do a bit better than random in these games by taking into account the information from the first cycle. For example, the probability of a first cycle Day 1 win is 1/13, but on the second cycle Day 1 town knows that 2 of the last 5 players were Mafia and one of those pairs is already ruled out so they can win 1/9 by picking another pair from that group. I suspect the true EV is pretty close to 50%, maybe eventually I'll work out all the details.
(This is an open/vanilla version of a Tragedy Looper or Majora's Mask game which has been bouncing around in my head for a while.)
I really like this!
Initially I was thinking how it fit my criteria, and I realised it involved dead players in a way that I didn't imagine, but it definitely counts!
On day 1 there is a standard lynch.
On night 1, after the nightkill, the mafia groups all the remaining living players into 3 person neighborhoods.
On day 2, players vote on a neighborhood to become the Scythedom. They can discuss this in their neighborhoods, but in thread they can only post naked votes until the Scythedom decision is hammered. The Scythedom gains a votes-only post restriction, but also gains a compulsive democratic neighborhood vigilante kill. Scythedoms of three allow the scum to redirect their shot if they fail to at least reach a 2-1 majority vote. Scythedoms of 2 randomize their shot between the two targets if there is not consensus, except if one of the options is scum and the other isn't, the town aligned player will always be selected. Scythe votes are published in thread on the following daystart.
The post restriction vanishes in LyLo.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
you target someone during the night and you give them your power. They become your neighbor for the following
day-phase
ONLY. If you are killed, the power still passes to the other person. They just don't get a neighborhood. If your target is killed, you keep your power, but you don't get a neighborhood.
Spoiler: OkaPoka
In post 56, OkaPoka wrote:
Inspired by liars v millers by psyche and the 1of4 ability in gameshow mafia by BNP
With one mafia dead, it clears effectively half the playerlist upon selection of the ability.
also please criticize
esp balance i dont know how to calculate balance
It's another summer of love down in sunny California. Daytime work and chores give way to night after night of dancing, drinking, and good times for the newly-graduated Class of 2019. This summer promises many flings, crazy nights, and memories - as long as your parents don't find out! And as if sneaking out of the house weren't hard enough, I hear there's some real squares trying to get the party shut down. . .
Factions:
Cool Kids (town) vs Squares (mafia)
Cool Kids win when all Squares have been kicked out of the party, or nothing can prevent this from happening.
Squares win when all Cool Kids have been ratted out, or nothing can prevent this from happening.
MECHANIC: Dance Partners
At the start of the game, players will be paired off as dance partners by the mod. Two Squares will never be paired up; that's just not cool. Cool Kids can be paired with other Cool Kids or Squares. Dance partners will always be public knowledge--you're gonna be dancing together after all. At the appropriate times, you and your dance partner will be able to talk in private. If your dance partner is kicked out of the party or ratted out by the Squares, you may still converse with them at the appropriate times.
Accordingly, no dancer kicked/ratted out of the party should be given access to any private discussion topics pertaining to the game until his or her partner is also kicked/ratted out, at which point either may be given the topic at mod's discretion.
Squares will have their own group talk separate from their partner chat.
Game Schedule and MECHANIC: Dance Prep
Days and nights are reversed in this game. The game starts on Night 0. [NOTE: This is strictly for flavor purposes.]
During night phases, dancers may talk in the game thread and vote to kick someone out of the party. Night phases are six days long, instead of the normal seven.
During day phases, dancers with special roles will submit their actions to the mod, and dancers may chat with their partners as they please. Day phases are two days long, as normal.
At the end of the day, before the night starts, dancers will take an intermediate step called Dance Prep. The day actions will resolve and the results will be announced. Dancers may chat with their partners as they please during Dance Prep. The thread is
NOT
open during this step. Dance Prep is one day long.
After Dance Prep, it's dance time! Dancers proceed to the venue and a new night begins.
SETUP QUICK 'N' DIRTY
For 12 players:
Cool Kids (9): Seven (7) Cool Kids, One (1) Bouncer, One (1) Wink
Squares (3): Three (3) Squares
For 20 players:
Cool Kids (14): Ten (10) Cool Kids, One (1) Bouncer, One (1) Wink, One (1) Cupid, One (1) Doc
Squares (6): Six (6) Squares
ROLES
The following roles
will
be in this game.
Cool Kid -- A regular Cool Kid with no special abilities. Dancers vote for someone to be kicked from the party every night and may converse with their partners during days and Dance Prep.
Square -- A regular Square. Squares vote for someone to be kicked from the party every night and may converse with their partners during days and Dance Prep. Additionally, Squares know who the other Squares are, and may converse with the other Squares during days and Dance Prep. Squares also collectively vote to rat out one of the Cool Kids each day. [NOTE: Ratting out a Cool Kid is a factional action; Squares don't have to select an individual Square to do the ratting out. Squares ride or die together, which is ironic, considering they're all ratting out everyone else.]
Chad "Bouncer" Radkowski -- A Cool Kid who played linebacker for the football team. Charming and very strong, if the Bouncer wants you out, you're done. The Bouncer can unilaterally kick another Dancer out of the party during the day. But because the Bouncer is a Cool Kid who wants everybody to get along, and feels like a father figure to the other Dancers since he took three more years to graduate than they did, the Bouncer limits himself to one eviction. Just know that if he weren't so cool, every last one of you Squares would be thrown out already. Bouncer is Wink's boyfriend, and begins the game partnered with Wink. [NOTE: Bouncer and Wink must be in the game together if they are in the game at all.]
Bernawinke "Wink" Reissmann -- A Cool Kid from Switzerland who led the cheerleading squad. Wink's a pretty little thing, and she knows it. She's the Bouncer's girlfriend, but that doesn't mean she can't talk to other people... During the day, Wink may choose a new dance partner. If she does, then at the start of Dance Prep, she will become that dancer's new partner. The dancer's old partner will pair up with her old partner. The two new pairs of partners will be able to talk during Dance Prep. If the Squares rat out the dancer that Wink chose as a new partner, then Wink's switch will fail and she will remain with her current partner. As mentioned before, Wink is Bouncer's girlfriend, and begins the game partnered with Bouncer. [NOTE: Bouncer and Wink must be in the game together if they are in the game at all.]
The following roles
may
be in this game, contingent upon game size.
Cooper "Cupid" Jackson -- A Cool Kid who became notorious in the Class of 2019 for winning homecoming king all four years, with a different date each time. Cupid is a matchmaker par excellence. Once per game during the day, Cupid can choose a dancer who doesn't currently have a partner. If he does, then at the start of Dance Prep, that dancer will become Cupid's partner. But because Cupid is such a charmer, his original partner won't leave; the three of them will dance the night away. For the rest of the game, all three dancers will be partnered together, and will be able to talk during the day and during Dance Prep. If the Squares rat out the dancer that Cupid chose as a new partner, then Cupid's arrow will be refunded.
Nick "Doc" Holliday -- A Cool Kid on his way to Stanford's illustrious pre-med program, Doc is a selfless guy who would do anything for his friends. At the end of the day, before day actions resolve, Doc will be told which dancer, if anybody, will be ratted out that day. He then may choose to "fess up" and be ratted out in that dancer's stead. If he chooses to confess, then the mod will announce when resolving day actions that Doc was ratted out. Owing to the nature of this ability, it can only be used once. [NOTE: The original target to be ratted out will not be announced; effectively Doc is redirecting the Squares' ratting out to himself.]
Balance Considerations
EDIT: To be clear, the roles are confirmed and known at game start. I wanted to give the GM some options for tuning the setup since the neighbor-heavy nature of the game makes for weird balancing (imo). This is an open setup with GM discretion on which roles to use; the roles will be known.
[EDIT of EDIT: This has been resolved.]
EDIT 2: Balance considerations revised after discussion below. Setups for 12 and for 20 players are included near the top. Spoiler edited into an area since nested spoilers don't work contains original comments.
During a special pregame/Dawn phase (after everyone has received alignment; mafia can chat during this phase), players privately choose one of the four seasons: winter, spring, summer, or autumn. Players that do not pick in a timely manner are automatically assigned to Winter.
Once the Dawn phase ends, players become neighbors with players that chose the same season as them. Who is in what neighborhood is not publicly revealed. The game then continues like a normal game.
During Day 1 OR Day 2, the town may publicly vote to use a seasonal sensor ability on a particular seasonal neighborhood. This ability causes the number of scum (at the beginning of Day 1) in that neighborhood to be revealed. A simple majority of votes for a particular neighborhood is needed to activate the ability.
---
This version is less swingy than the first version since it is no longer dependent on a particular person staying alive. It still doesn't address the other issue of an 8p neighborhood being all town (or something of that sort), but I believe if one were to calculate the probability of such, it would be rather low. (And scum get pregame to decide on how to distribute themselves among the neighborhoods, so an instance of all three scum being in the same neighborhood and the sensor ability revealing such is on them.)
Currently, I have the sensor ability set to be a public majority vote, but maybe it would be better to have it be anonymous plurality vote (with numbers but not names revealed).
Each Day, the Town votes to lynch two players. Town win on any day by lynching a pair of Mafia. Otherwise, alignments are not immediately [edit]or ever[/edit] revealed. Instead, at Night, the Mafia chooses two players to kill, with the restriction that exactly 1 of the 4 lynched/killed players is Mafia.
After Day 3, there is no Night. Instead, if the Town has failed to lynch even a single Mafia out of the six players chosen, scum win immediately.
Otherwise, the game resets to Day 1 and all players are again alive.
If after the second Day 3 town has not won by lynching a pair of Mafia, scum win.
With completely random choices both days, EV is 40.63%. However, about 70% of games will get to the second cycle, and town will do a bit better than random in these games by taking into account the information from the first cycle. For example, the probability of a first cycle Day 1 win is 1/13, but on the second cycle Day 1 town knows that 2 of the last 5 players were Mafia and one of those pairs is already ruled out so they can win 1/9 by picking another pair from that group. I suspect the true EV is pretty close to 50%, maybe eventually I'll work out all the details.
(This is an open/vanilla version of a Tragedy Looper or Majora's Mask game which has been bouncing around in my head for a while.)
Spoiler: Not Known 15
In post 116, Not Known 15 wrote:
I made a balance change to prevent continuous lockdowns of the city in two halves, which would have been a breaking strategy.
The mafia factional nightkill is compulsive.
Each day starts with players only allowed to post naked votes regarding the Savage Mutation power (this restriction includes factional PTs). If "Don't Mutate" receives a majority or 2 real days pass, the power is saved, perhaps to be used on another day. If "Mutate: Playername" receives a majority, that player becomes a
3-nights-to-go-poisoned, unlynchable, bulletproof, voteless third party savage mutant with a 3-shot factional nightkill
. That player loses all posting privileges, even voting, for the rest of the game. If that player was previously town, that player's win condition becomes
"Fennecbeast: You win the game and leave the game when you kill a member of the mafia."
If that player was previously mafia, that player's win condition becomes
"Sharktobeast:You win the game and leave the game just before shooting when you target the same player at night that the mafia targetted"
The Savage Mutation power becomes unavailable after it has been used once, or after a Scum Mad Scientist is lynched.
After the decision regarding the power, players can post opinions that may persuade the up-to-one savage mutant in the mutant's silence, but more importantly posts opinions about a standard majority lynch.
After a
Sharktobeast
win, the remaining shots are fired at townies at random over the remainder of the nights.
TemporalLich (Soul Gem) - This setup has a parity problem; scum losing their nightkill when the soultrap happens just means town should no lynch the next day. Given that, this has the same EV as 2:7 Vanilla, and I'm kinda meh on private topics for the sake of private topics.
chennisden - Joke post.
OkaPoka (1 of N/2+1) - Potentially clearing half the player list is very strong, but I think the balance is reasonable. I think the intention is floor(N/2)+1 (odd count - equivalent to (N+1)/2 if lynches and nightkills are compulsive). Using the ability before getting it down to 1 scum is questionable, which limits my interest in the mechanic somewhat - perhaps requiring exactly 1 scum would be more reasonable. Anyway, my best guess at optimal strategy is to wait until scum is lynched to use it (even at 2:3, town gains very little information from using the ability since scum can put both in the group of 3 with some optimal probability), and I get an EV of 42.59% in that case (2/9*3/4 + 7/9*2/7*2/3 + 7/9*5/7*2/5*1/2), a significant improvement over 2:7 Vanilla. Not bad.
irrelephant11 (Open Box of Silver) - Not sure about the balance; it's probably ok? The random choice if neighbors don't agree kills this for me. I'd require a unanimous choice.
Ranking so far: OkaPoka >> irrelephant11 > TemporalLich
In order from most favored to least favored setup:
1. The Four Seasons (Ircher): First of all, it is my own setup. Though it may be swingy, I really like the choose your neighbors-type mechanic in it. It also reminds me of another game I played here that actually did feature that part of the mechanic.
2. Group Investigation (Cinnamon): While a simple setup, I like the idea.
3. Take Two (mith): It's an interesting setup, though it may be a little frustrating since there are no flips.
4. Open Box of Silver (Irrelephant11): I think it's a cool setup, and I like how you model it after a series of closed games. That said, I don't think randomness is that great of a thing, and I also think watcher abilities tend to lead setups that swing too wildly against scum. Jailkeeper is also apparently a strong power to give out as well, so I think the balance of the setup may significantly favor town.
5. 1 of N/2 + 1 (OkaPoka): Having played Liars and Millers by Psyche, which was very similar to this, I'd say this mechanic is pretty fun. The only concern I have is again balance--in Liars and Millers, the setup swung wildly in town's favor. This version seems to be even more swingy especially the longer people wait on doing this power.
6. Dance Party Mafia (Carl Tuckerson): The setup seems interesting, but not one that I'd personally like to play.
7. Don't Gooch Your Neighbor (Boonskiies): This seems like a wild and fun setup, but I'm not sure I fully understand it. If I did, this setup would probably have been higher in my list.
8. Divide and Conquer (Skygazer): A simpler setup that seems to be balanced. (It's a lot less fun though when scum get to choose neighborhoods.)
9. The Scythes (popsofctown): This setup just didn't really interest me that much.
10. Job Application (Oversoul): This setup doesn't look balanced at a glance. It also didn't interest me that much, sorry!
11. Soul Gem Mafia (TemporalLich): While I like the mechanic, this setup is basically 7-2 mountainous, and the site as a whole agrees that pure mountainous setups are bad.
12. Council Infilitration (Not Known 15): While you tried your best to shorten it down, it is still too long and complicated for me to really even try to understand it. I could if I had unlimited time, but I do not. Furthermore, I think that will be a large problem when running the setup in practice--people will not understand how it works because it is so long and so complicated.
13. Invite the Neighbors (chennisden): This setup does not fit the spirit of the rules and should be disqualified.
Links: User Page | GTKAS
Do you have questions, ideas, or feedback for the Scummies? Please pm me!
Hosting: The Grand Neighborhood [Ongoing]
Soul Gem Mafia being 7:2 mountainous is mostly because I wanted a micro that wasn't nightless or any color of flag.
Yeah Soultrap doesn't affect the EV at all, it's basically a near-kill that gives you a PT.
If it really does cause a parity problem then there aren't correct numbers for Soul Gem Mafia (there might be for one-sided Soul Gem Mafia, where town deciding to soultrap doesn't affect the mafia NK, but really one-sided Soul Gem Mafia is so close to mountainous it's not worth considering).
Oversoul (Job Application) - I may not be following this correctly. Assuming each phase happens every cycle, and there is no nightkill, town strategy should be as follows: Give whichever applicant the ability - that applicant uses the ability on a different applicant (since each applicant has a private topic). Town is guaranteed to determine a town applicant (if the ability claim gives a town result, that player is town; if the ability claim gives a scum result, either that player or the claimer is scum, which means the third applicant is town). Lynch among the possible scum applicants. The next cycle, give the town applicant the ability to determine which groups have scum (this actually doesn't matter at all - the all-town group is irrelevant, ultimately). Lynch the other applicant if you didn't already hit scum. Town is guaranteed to hit the scum applicant, and then they have to guess 1 out of 3 with two chances to get it right, so Mafia win 2/3*2/3 = 4/9 and Town wins 5/9. Not balanced, and not fun.
Cinnamon (Group Investigation) - This is a neat idea. Protecting a player if town for two nights may be overpowered? That player can determine everything including neighborhood makeups and targets, and if the ability fails town learns there is at least one scum in the group. An ability going through doesn't confirm no scum, but scum are taking a big risk letting any investigations go through if they can prevent it. Town should pre-vote and then force certain players to join the lynch to control neighborhood makeup. Anyway, I'm not sure it's imbalanced necessarily (in terms of overall EV); but very swingy (and also probably less fun to play) if town controls the neighborhoods like that. Day 1, town can choose 5 players to stay off the lynch, with ~20% chance of picking all town (and a ~3.5% chance of hitting all the scum) and getting an investigation. If an investigation does go through (whether hitting that almost 1/4 chance of an all town group, or scum letting it go through), the group can be kept together until/unless scum block the investigation on a later night. Obviously scum can try to manipulate things as long as possible to ensure there is never an investigation, and give information that way (plus the information that there is at least one scum in a failed neighborhood). Anyway, I think there is an interesting idea here that needs tweaking.
List so far: OkaPoka > Cinnamon >> irrelephant11 > TemporalLich > Oversoul
