[CHALLENGE] August Challenge (small update)

[popsofctown]

I admittedly totally missed the scum inventor.

[popsofctown]

Cyan Flag

6 players

2 Mafia Goons

1 Town Doctor

3 Linked 1-shot Deathproof Townies (blocks one lynch or nightkill as a whole group)

This setup has a standard day/night cycle.

Town wins if the Mafia factional kill fails because of the Doctor (which takes precedence over DP) or all Mafiosi die.

Mafia wins if they achieve parity.

Scum have daytalk and multitasking.

Not exactly a Flag setup but it looks like one I guess. Alternative setup name: Exalted Doctor

I'm still worried this setup is townsided after replacing the JK with a Doc.

This looks like a great micro.

I feel really weird about being asked to rank setups later and rank a great micro against a good mini

It's like being asked to award Oscars to feature films and short films in the same category it's just so weird.

[northsidegal]

Guard Dog 10p

aka Double Bluff

10 Players:

1 Mafia Informed

1 Mafia Goon

1 Town Dog Owner

7 Vanilla Townies

• The Mafia is informed "You are aware that PLAYER is the Town Dog Owner".
  
  
• If the Town Dog Owner is targeted for a kill, the kill is prevented, and the message "PLAYER was targeted during the night." is made public at the start of the day.
  • Each night, the Town Dog Owner may either do nothing, or may
    Transfer Ownership
    to another player.
    
  • That player will then become the Dog Owner, be informed of such and will flip as such, while the original owner will revert to Vanilla.
    
    • That new owner may choose to again transfer ownership, if desired.
      
    • Transfers take place before kills, and as such someone transfered to and targeted by the mafia on the same night will live.

any thoughts? i think there's some depth to be had there. also not sure if it's horribly broken or not, came up with it somewhat quickly.

[northsidegal]

also if anyone has any ideas for a better setup name / role names / general themes i'm open to them

always think it's nice to have a snappy title and / or some kind of theme to make things click but not sure if i'm entirely happy with these names

[northsidegal]

to clarify – the mafia is only informed who starts the game as the dog owner, not continually informed.

(also, i thought that was funny awoo :> )

[Jingle]

I think the title is fine.

To clarify, what happens if the dog is given to mafia?

I only ask because currently the implication is that the mafioso becomes town which is crazy broken.

Balance wise, it seems like 7+docv2 which seems pretty meh from a gameplay standpoint but probably balancedish. Gameplay seems better in your version. My only thought would be considering changing it to odds, since you don't gain a mislynch until the doc hits twice.

I almost thought it was broken because mafia wouldn't pass along the dog, but that's dog logic (heh) because they aren't worried so much when they know where the dog is and that clearly means they're being townread. Hell, they could intentionally shoot their partner while they had the dog and pseudo clear them. It's pretty fascinating, actually.

[northsidegal]

err, mafia doesn't become town dog owner. they just become a mafia dog owner. i'll edit that.

yeah, the mafia intentionally shooting themselves to try to pseudo clear was a cool aspect i thought might eventually happen.



do you not gain a mislynch until mafia gets the dog twice?

assuming they never get the dog and also town never hits mafia:
d1 - 8v2
d2 - 6v2
d3 - 4v2, no lynch
d4 - 3v2

that looks like three lynches total to me. now if they get the dog once, on n1:
d1 - 8v2
d2 - 7v2
d3 - 5v2
d4 - 3v2

that's four lynches, right?

[popsofctown]

nsg teach me how to submit mostly mountainous setups in a way that causes Jingle to call them fascinating

[Awoo]

^ Checks out.

I know it doesn't fit in this setup, but a Town Dog Owner Enabler would be called a Town Dog, and that warms my heart.

[Jingle]

I'm saying if you switch to odds.

Odds in general is more fun to play ime.

Balance wise, it's identical until you get additional mislynches, and I think it's fine here to add another townie without punishing scum too harshly, because town would then need to doc twice to gain a mislynch. (First doc sets up a no lynch, second doc nets a mislynch.)

FWIW, given the existence of a dog watcher I don't think you should no lynch in 4v2.

Also, what happens if the dog owner is lynched? I assume the dog goes to live in a less awful neighborhood where someone will keep it for more than a night, , but you could choose to have someone at random get the dog, or the hammerer, or whatever.

[popsofctown]

Maybe add unlynchable to the dog owner's characteristics and make dog gifting compulsory?

Is that broken? Brain too lazy right now.

[northsidegal]

nsg teach me how to submit mostly mountainous setups in a way that causes Jingle to call them fascinating

haha. i guess when i try to come up with new roles and such i really just look at existing ones and try to add twists to them, e.g. what if there was a single transferable bulletproof vest, what if it made something public, etc.

making random information public is something i've been thinking about recently and tried (unsuccessfully) with public cop

I'm saying if you switch to odds.

Odds in general is more fun to play ime.

Balance wise, it's identical until you get additional mislynches, and I think it's fine here to add another townie without punishing scum too harshly, because town would then need to doc twice to gain a mislynch. (First doc sets up a no lynch, second doc nets a mislynch.)

FWIW, given the existence of a dog watcher I don't think you should no lynch in 4v2.

Also, what happens if the dog owner is lynched? I assume the dog goes to live in a less awful neighborhood where someone will keep it for more than a night, , but you could choose to have someone at random get the dog, or the hammerer, or whatever.

oh, i definitely agree about odds being more fun to play. i just have it as 10 players because it's a requirement for the challenge. i might run it as 9 players just to get it in the micro queue rather than the glacier that is the open queue anyways. (also might try running it marathon weekend)

i think i'm fine with the dog just going away if the owner gets lynched. like, if the mafia can somehow make that happen or if the town somehow messes that up, i feel like that should be something that sticks.

[northsidegal]

it's definitely the case that some weird gameplay can happen with such an extreme danger in lynching the dog owner. mafia claiming dog owner if run up and then getting counterclaimed could seemingly be some kind of stalemate given that there's plausible reason for neither of them to die during the night, but i think an easy way to resolve that is just the town agrees that the real dog owner transfers to another agreed upon player during the night and then you lynch whoever you wanted to lynch in the first place without danger of losing the dog.

[Jingle]

Oh, right. Mith likes evens cause he's weird.

Forgot that part.

[Something_Smart]

War Zone

2 Mafia Goons

Town Loud 1-Shot Vigilante Inventor
Town Bulletproof Bomb
4 Vanilla Townies

Inventor has a one-shot power to give someone a one-shot kill. The target will learn the inventor's name when this happens.

If the bomb is targeted for a kill, the kill fails and the killer dies instead.

Mafia members can use the invention and the factional kill in the same night.

[northsidegal]

voting time?

[Jingle]

Yup. I'll try to take a look tonight. Been busy.

[popsofctown]

Evil of the Mob will be my submission.

[popsofctown]

NMSA's post 39 does not meet the challenge requirements because it's missing "one of the following", but his post 35 does, so that should be voted on instead of post 39.

[TemporalLich]

Cyan Flag is my submission

[northsidegal]

nsg
----
OkaPoka
----
nk15, SS, TL
----
CFJ, Jingle
----
popsofctown, NMSA

[popsofctown]

1: Evil of the Mob (popsofctown)

Will we at some point ban self voting? This one is a little less egotistical than usual, really, though, since it comes from me liking the Black Knight setup and attempting to emulate it.

2: Shoot Me (NK15)

I like a bloodbath larger game better than a micro, even if some of the micro designs here excite me more in terms of novelty. I don't see anything wrong with the shoot me setup, and the ability to create a sort of tree stump if the activated bulletproof is targeted well does make the setup pretty novel. I always love a setup with interesting elements where the interesting elements are not "investigate players, win even though you misread"

3: War Zone (Something_Smart)

Similar to NK15's but I find NK's more interesting.

4: Careful Who You Kill (callforjudgment)

I don't really want to play a setup with multiple 3rd parties, but if I do want to play a setup with multiple third parties, I think I want to play this one.

There's some strategy involved in leashing the vig onto players who are associatively scummy versus lynching people who are independently scummy.

The 1:1:1 resolution is appealing.

5: Dayvigs and Godfathers (OkaPoka)

Dayvigs are just great for marathons. This would be higher if it didn't have a Godfather-flag because I like designs where either scum can deepwolf better. But it is hard to balance a micro without stuff like Godfather-flag, which is to say, this would be higher if it weren't a micro :X .

6: Guard dog (northsidegal)

It's kind of boring to me but not messed up like the ones below. The shoot your teammate thing is cool but how many runs of the setup does it take before this doesn't play out mountainous?

7: Greedy Inventors (Jingle)

The setup is interesting. I'm halfsold on the watcher thing, but I dislike the Godfather-flag. I'm again aware that it's a necessary evil. Unlike OkaPoka's though this doesn't work great as a marathon.

8: NMSA Untitled 1

I think it'd be better with 1 dayvig.
People might have fun with this.
It's kind of obviously ridiculous.

9: Cyan Flag (TemporalLich)

Town winning off a doc protect upsets me too much. Jingle's watcher does the same thing but I think his has some no-kill gameplay going on that helps.

[Something_Smart]

War Zone (S_S) - Definitely some swing with the bulletproof bomb but it has some interesting potential interactions. I think this would be fun as a marathon or face-to-face.

Dayvigs and Godfathers (Oka) - I like this. Probably on par with Vengeful in terms of simplicity and entertainment value for a tiny setup.

Cyan Flag (TL) - Not quite as elegant as Oka's but I like how it can play out. Doctor getting run up D1 sucks though.

Careful Who You Kill (cfj) - Despite the 6:2:2 I think town has decent power and scum have a lot of things to worry about. Unjesters almost always claiming doc is also interesting.

Shoot Me (NK15) - Similar idea to mine, but I'm not as keen on it as pops is. Activated bulletproof feels bad if you waste it and even worse if you die with it, and the vig dying early kinda screws town over hard, but otherwise it's pretty reasonable.

Guard Dog (NSG) - Bork. It's a very NSG setup but I think it's likely to end up being boring, especially if scum gets the dog and just keeps it. If the dog is hit it will never be passed which essentially creates a bulletproof IC, which is meh.

Greedy Inventors (Jingle) - I like the "whoever has more inventions by D4 wins," but I think the rest of the setup is just kinda random. I don't like the designated-killer or the godfather-flag, they don't seem to really have a reason.

Evil of the Mob (popsofctown) - I really don't understand why any of the mechanics in this game exist at all, or why they're put in the same setup. Doesn't really feel like they make the game more interesting for either side. 7:2 white flag is townsided iirc, I bet this is as well.

Post #35 (NMSA) - I don't know where you expected me to put a game with as many jesters as townies. Sorry NMSA but jesters are not good

[popsofctown]

Shoot Me (NK15) - Similar idea to mine, but I'm not as keen on it as pops is. Activated bulletproof feels bad if you waste it and even worse if you die with it, and the vig dying early kinda screws town over hard, but otherwise it's pretty reasonable.

I interpreted the activated BP as repeatable, it doesn't say 1-shot activated BP.

[Something_Smart]

Inventor by default hands out 1-shot powers. Besides, there's no reason to make it "activated" if players are always just gonna use it every night. Would be worth clarifying if you get a chance though, NK15.