[CHALLENGE] August Challenge (small update)

[mith]

With that change, I get 7/15 for dayvig autowin but no lynch autowin, and 60-40 with both autowin:

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1/6 - lynch godfather EV 3/5 (or 1)
1/6 - lynch goon EV 3/5
4/6 - IC, shoot EV 2/5 (or 1/2)
      1/5 - shoot godfather EV 1
      1/5 - shoot goon EV 1/2
      3/5 - shoot town EV 1/6 (or 1/3)
            1/4 - lynch godfather, nk IC, EV 1/3 (or 1)
            1/4 - lynch goon, nk IC, EV 1/3
            1/2 - lynch town, EV 0

(And 2/5 for no autowin at all, and 8/15 for only lynch autowin but not dayvig autowin.)

[OkaPoka]

yeah EV for this setup would probably be better calculated using chances of 1 scum being towniest / 2 scum being in top 3

edit: i like win only on dayvig kill, probably closer to balance than double autowin n lynch autowin just isnt as cool as dayvig autowin

[mith]

Yeah, it has the best balance anyway. 40-60 is probably fine too (no autowin).

I'm curious now whether a setup like this could be made to work giving the Godfather the same dayvig/deactivate ability. Would need more town, obviously. (And it wouldn't qualify for this month's challenge, Godfather Dayvig is definitely a combo role.)

[popsofctown]

The beauty of the setup is how low he got the player count, though.

[Not Known 15]

The problem of the setup is that it is not valid, for this challenge. The dayvigs form a new associative group - a shared dayvig group.

[OkaPoka]

what if i just made them all n1 bulletproofs + and upon the lynch of the first townie instead of dying they can submit a twilight kill (before n1) i.e. a vengeful mafia type mechanic

at this point im just rules lawyering so i should probably make a separate post when i have the time for my setup

[popsofctown]

You could try to argue shared vigs aren't new because it's a pretty popular concept in theme games.. but yeah.

This is my least favorite set of challenge parameters yet.

[popsofctown]

Is smalltown "fully open"?

[mith]

I'll say yes.

[mith]

I'm removing the associative group restriction, primarily because I am not coming up with a clean way of defining it.

I think the Dayvig setup still runs into problems, in that either "Dayvig Deactivator" should be a combination role or the Dayvig should be considered a shared town power, which would mean the setup only has one (scum) power role. But it's a neat idea, otherwise.

[NotMySpamAccount]

2 Town 1-Shot Dayvig
2 Informed Jester (knows other Jester)
2 Mafia

I'm sure there are problems, but I've never really tried this before, so tell me how to break/fix it.

[mith]

I don't see anything better than both dayvigs shoot ASAP.

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1/5 - First town to shoot picks second town.
        1/2 - Lynch Jester; I'm assuming this ends the game with that Jester winning and everyone else losing? Otherwise, Mafia win too, and in this case they can choose a Jester to cooperate with and share the win that way.
        1/2 - Lynch Mafia. If Mafia kills town, there is no incentive for anyone to help lynch anyone else, but a no lynch means Mafia wins; Jesters could come to some agreement to let one of them win, but letting the other Jester win is no better than letting Mafia win. I dunno, 1 Mafia 2 Jesters is a mess.
2/5 - First dayvig shoots Jester.
        1/3 - Second dayvig shoots Jester. Mafia wins.
        2/3 - Second dayvig shoots Mafia.
                1/2 - Lynch Mafia. Town wins.
                1/2 - Lynch Jester. Jester wins.
                ....except Jester has no reason to help lynch Mafia, and Mafia has no reason to help lynch Jester.
                    They can also vote together on a (confirmed) townie, preventing any sort of deadline tiebreak from working in town's favor.
                So no lynch instead? Mafia has to kill town, so 1 Town, 1 Jester, 1 Mafia, no lynch means Mafia win but Jester has no reason to help town lynch Mafia; mafia this is like above with Town and Jester making a deal to determine which wins, but same as above applies.
2/5 - First dayvig shoots Mafia.
        1/3 - Second dayvig shoots Mafia. Town wins.
        2/3 - Second dayvig shoots Jester.
                1/2 - Lynch Mafia. Town wins.
                1/2 - Lynch Jester. Jester wins.
                ....except Jester has no reason to help lynch Mafia, and Mafia has no reason to help lynch Jester.
                    They can also vote together on a (confirmed) townie, preventing any sort of deadline tiebreak from working in town's favor.

So that means 1/20 Jester 1 wins, 1/20 Jester 2 wins, 2/15 Mafia wins, 2/15 Town wins, 19/30 unresolved nonsense?

[callforjudgement]

2 Town 1-Shot Dayvig
2 Informed Jester (knows other Jester)
2 Mafia

I'm sure there are problems, but I've never really tried this before, so tell me how to break/fix it.

Does a Jester lynch cause everyone else to lose?

It's clearly optimal for town to decide on a lynch first, then ask the lynch target to dayvig someone to prove they're town; that avoids any accidental lynching of townies. That said, town don't start with majority, so the normal "town decide every day's lynch" simplification doesn't apply here. The Mafia, for example, will want to no-lynch every day if they can, and I'm not convinced it's in the Jesters' interests to team up with the town to stop them doing so (a Mafia lynch is probably even worse from the Jesters' point of view than a no-lynch, and the Jesters don't particularly care about looking town, so they will probably vote to no-lynch to make it look like they're Mafia). So the town will have to use their shots to shoot anyone voting no-lynch (or otherwise trying to stall out the day).

It might be worth running from a motivation-pileup point of view, but not as a serious game; if you go into it with the same attitude as Grand Idea or the like, people might have fun. It's almost certainly completely broken, but actually finding the break will be difficult.

[NotMySpamAccount]

Ok thanks, that's about what I expected. I'll revamp it and probably change most of it.

[NotMySpamAccount]

2 VT
2 Town 1-Shot Dayvig
2 Mafia
1 Even-Night SK
1 Odd-Night SK

[mith]

I'd suggest dayvig immediately again. Less clear what the outcome would be, but more likely than not will take out at least one scum and confirm two town. And scum have the usual multiball prisoner's dilemma stuff going on, when there is confirmed town sometimes it's better to try to take the other scum out first so you don't get killed at night.

Not my type of setup, but some people might like it.

[Jingle]

Greedy Inventors

6v2

1 Town Inventor {Doctor, Watcher, Tracker, Cop)
5 VT

1 Even Night Scum Inventor {Rolecop, Ninja}
1 Scum Godfather

Godfather makes the Nightkills.

If at the beginning of D4, living Town has received more inventions, town wins.
If the Godfather is lynched, town wins.
Else, Scum wins at the beginning of D4.

All Inventions are 1 shot.
Rolecop sees inventions.

[TemporalLich]

Cyan Flag

6 players

2 Mafia Goons

1 Town Doctor

3 Linked 1-shot Deathproof Townies (blocks one lynch or nightkill as a whole group)

This setup has a standard day/night cycle.

Town wins if the Mafia factional kill fails because of the Doctor (which takes precedence over DP) or all Mafiosi die.

Mafia wins if they achieve parity.

Scum have daytalk and multitasking.

Not exactly a Flag setup but it looks like one I guess. Alternative setup name: Exalted Doctor

I'm still worried this setup is townsided after replacing the JK with a Doc.

[popsofctown]

I want to love Jingle's setup
But he has corrupted it with the W word

[mith]

"wins"?

[popsofctown]

No

The worst role in all of mafia

[Awoo]

The worst role in mafia...

VVanilla Townie

[Jingle]

Watcher doesn't seem bad considering it can act once. Ever.

[popsofctown]

Watcher doesn't seem bad considering it can act once. Ever.

But it has doubled payoff since it's a flag setup.

[Jingle]

I edited for clarity, but I think you're missing a few key points:

The Watcher can see an action on N2, if town is targeted N1 and survives two nightkills. If the scum inventor survives D2, the godfather can be a ninja. Watcher is actually really low power threshold.

EV:

1/8 D1 Godfather lynch.
1/6 D2 Godfather lynch.
1/4 D3 Godfather lynch.

Roughly a 54% for town.

If the inventors both survive to at least D3, and the Godfather doesn't get lynched, in order to win, the town needs a player who has two inventions to be town and still alive at the end of N3. If the town inventor gives an invention to the Godfather, the Godfather has to survive. That's it.

If scum want, they can choose to holster their kill to lower the odds of the Godfather being lynched, meaning No Kill is a valid choice for scum since it doesn't affect their clock. If they're confident they've killed the people with inventions, they've received an invention, or the inventor is outed D1 they can just go for the invention win without changing their clock.