[SETUP] Flavor Duel

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
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[SETUP] Flavor Duel

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:36 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

5 Vanilla Townies

2 Mafia Goons


Each townie is randomly given a number from 1 to 7 (or these numbers can be replaced with characters from some flavor source, hence the name, the only rule is that the 7 possibilities must be public). All townies are guaranteed to have different numbers. Two numbers are not given, but the scum aren't given any information about what they are. Players flip with their numbers.

Other than that, game plays out normally with lynches and nightkills.

I feel like this may be somewhat close to balanced but I haven't done the EV calculation. A reasonable assumption for EV is that there will be a D1 massclaim in a random order.
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:29 pm

Post by singletonking »

viewtopic.php?f=115&t=78915

Looks like we have similar ideas :lol:

The consensus was that this may be balanced but probably isn't fun as there is a lot of inherent randomness in the claiming strategy
On indefinite hiatus from playing Mafia.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:03 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

Lol I know I saw that at one point but I guess I forgot about it :P

I think something like this would be fun face-to-face.
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:55 pm

Post by popsofctown »

oh gosh, it's like you want to design an open setup, but bring the cancery parts of closed setups into open setups.

Getting popcorned to go first in massclaim in a closed setup after pulling off a convincing bus, a convincing white knight on a townie mislynch, and lots of fake scumhunting, then claiming a role and finding out there's another copy of it in the setup that make it unlikely is the worst thing ever.

But I mean

This probably isn't much different than "10 VT 5 goons, at the start of the game, modkill 8 players at random"
In terms of how much you really changed the gameplay, not the balance percentages.
If the goal is to force one v ones those gladiator setups people come up with are much better than this.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:14 am

Post by Something_Smart »

In post 3, popsofctown wrote:Getting popcorned to go first in massclaim in a closed setup after pulling off a convincing bus
If you got popcorned to go first in a massclaim your bus was not very convincing.

Like yeah I see your complaint, but picking the massclaim order is basically the whole point of the game.

Like I said, I think it'd be more fun F2F (or maybe in a marathon) because D1 true 1v1's are kinda dumb in forum games... but the intent was to make a setup where the actual roles didn't matter but the order of claims mattered a lot. If you think that's cancer then maybe the people you play closed setups with don't know how to massclaim effectively :P
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:38 am

Post by popsofctown »

Something_Smart every closed game I've ever played has someone who doesn't know how to massclaim effectively in it.


popsofctown
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:02 am

Post by volxen »

I've played a lot more open or semi-open setups compared to closed setups, but isn't massclaim usually handled via "scummiest slot claims first, towniest slot claims last" as opposed to something like popcorn? And the most widely townread player in the game comes up with the claim order, from the scummiest slot to the towniest slot. So that the scummiest players have to come up with their claims with the least amount of information, as they don't know if they will be CC'd. That seems the most punishing to scum if no one on their team is being townread, but it's also extremely favorable to scum if their team is among the top two or three townreads in the game, as it should be.
"i agree it was a good that we outed PR volxen early..it's like he suddenly transformed from an ugly duckling into a beautiful(?) swan " - xwing (Newbie 1889: Ice Cream)
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:14 am

Post by popsofctown »

Yeah S_S is smarter than me
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:15 am

Post by volxen »

I like this setup for its simplicity and its emphasis on massclaim so I would definitely play it. An interesting gambit scum could try to pull off, if they are both the last two to claim, is for both of them to claim the same unclaimed number, so one of them gets lynched and the other potentially becomes "locktown" for the rest of the game.
"i agree it was a good that we outed PR volxen early..it's like he suddenly transformed from an ugly duckling into a beautiful(?) swan " - xwing (Newbie 1889: Ice Cream)
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