Loosely, yes.In post 40, OkaPoka wrote:is my setup balanced ?
cop 9er is vaguely balanced, you're adding .5 mls for a cop->vig transition.
Not sure the informed goon is important/useful, but it's in the realm of playable.
Loosely, yes.In post 40, OkaPoka wrote:is my setup balanced ?
Not legal...In post 46, student wrote:Thanks pops! Tweaked. (Can't have 1-shot anyhow)In post 44, student wrote:
I like this version because it gets rid of double days with Vig. Under Mass Claim, with a 1-1-1 fakeclaim sort, Lynching in any 1 PR pool could be disastrous if wrong (day2 1 investigate + 6VT vs 3 goons is scumsided) . Under correct lynch, it gives 1 conf town PR (other is killed) in day 2, but the investigate effects are halved: did mafia sort against Vanilla Cop or Gunsmith? (1 IC + 1.5 investigate + 6.5 vt vs 2 goons is townsided). Overall, it doesn't seem like mass-claiming day 1 is optimal.In post 44, student wrote:
Gunsmith would, I think, also seem confusing for newbies, but I agree; I do like the Gunsmith/Maf Doc interaction.In post 52, Jingle wrote:Prospective Newbie:
Randomly one of:
Mafia RB, Goon, JK, Tracker, 5 VT
Mafia RB, Goon, GSmith, Tracker, 5 VT
Mafia Rolecop, Goon, Tracker, Doctor, 5 VT
Mafia Rolecop, Goon, Doctor JK, 5 VT
Mafia Doctor, Goon, JK, 6 VT
Mafia Doctor, Goon, GSmith, Vig, 5 VT
In my experience the grid system isn't helpful and usually adds to confusion for newbies. This has some of the most balanced (by stats, at least) setups, with ambiguity in setup from any individual slot except vig without complicated roles. It's also a pretty good introduction to standard mafia roles. The most complicated interactions are RB/JK which has never really been an issue and GSmith Maf Doc, which I think is a good addition to demonstrate role ambiguity/ the ability to argue your way out of a guilty.
Thoughts?
I'd switch out Vig for doctor in setup 4, and Doctor for Tracker in Setup 2 to have a bit more symmetry. But then balance might start to get a bit off.In post 52, Jingle wrote:Prospective Newbie:
Randomly one of:
Mafia RB, Goon, JK, Tracker, 5 VT
Mafia RB, Goon, GSmith, Tracker, 5 VT
Mafia Rolecop, Goon, Tracker, Doctor, 5 VT
Mafia Rolecop, Goon, Doctor JK, 5 VT
Mafia Doctor, Goon, JK, 6 VT
Mafia Doctor, Goon, GSmith, Vig, 5 VT
In my experience the grid system isn't helpful and usually adds to confusion for newbies. This has some of the most balanced (by stats, at least) setups, with ambiguity in setup from any individual slot except vig without complicated roles. It's also a pretty good introduction to standard mafia roles. The most complicated interactions are RB/JK which has never really been an issue and GSmith Maf Doc, which I think is a good addition to demonstrate role ambiguity/ the ability to argue your way out of a guilty.
Thoughts?
Gsmith being confusing could probably be solved by changing the Role PM for the newbie queue. "Receives a result of "has a gun" for Mafia Roleblockers, Mafia Goons, and Town Vigilantes. Receives a result of "does not have a gun" for any other role." Should make it clear enough.In post 54, Spangled wrote: Gunsmith would, I think, also seem confusing for newbies, but I agree; I do like the Gunsmith/Maf Doc interaction.
To me, though, Vig seems dubious in a newbie; the swing that could produce might be really bad.
Other than that, though, I also think this one has more room for fakeclaiming etc., which is good.
It's explicitly listed as a role on the wiki, FWIW, so I think you're safe to say it's a combination.In post 59, gobbledygook wrote:I would say combined. Miller itself is a role. We don’t call them Miller Townies or Guilty townies. This implies collective subconscious has always thought of it as a role, not a modification to a vanilla townie role.
I suspect it's very townsided. Vig is a confirmable role, after all (and it doesn't really help with symmetry because scum can't plausibly fakeclaim it). Even though the town roles can interfere with each other, they probably won't.Jingle wrote:Setup 4 is new. Vig/JK is a lot of power but slightly negative interactions. My guess is that it'd be fairly balanced.
Point. Symmetry isn't a huge concern anyway. Switching 4 back.In post 65, callforjudgement wrote:I suspect it's very townsided. Vig is a confirmable role, after all (and it doesn't really help with symmetry because scum can't plausibly fakeclaim it). Even though the town roles can interfere with each other, they probably won't.