[CHALLENGE] September Challenge

[Not Known 15]

@NK15: Are the Ninjas in Row 4 Column 1 intended to function as named townies who share a name with eachother but don't have meaningful power?

If so I would suggest, for identical functionality and slightly more elegance, that they be Informed Townies, information: "You know that there is only two mafia." or "You know that there is one other Informed Townie".

No. They are also incentives for the upper setup Ninjas not to claim immediately(the same is true for Encryptors).

[popsofctown]

Wiki page is totally silent on whether lovers is normal (and whether neighborlovers or masonlovers would be more normal since it's not mentioned at all)

[northsidegal]

lovers are not normal

[callforjudgement]

A role has to be explicitly listed as Normal to be Normal, under the current rules. If it isn't mentioned on the page it isn't allowed.

[popsofctown]

Three Can Keep a Secret If

1

Mafia Traffic Analyst Enabler

2

Mafia Goon

1

Town Traffic Analyst

1

Backup Town Traffic Analyst

8

Vanilla Townie

[northsidegal]

what's the point of the enabler when a traffic analyst already can't get meaningful results once one scum is dead?

[callforjudgement]

There are three scum total, so if the Enabler dies first, it makes a difference.

[northsidegal]

oops, thought there were only two scum.

[popsofctown]

The 7-2 version of the setup would be the same mechanics with different names, 1 Mafia Gunsmith Enabler, 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Gunsmith, 1 Backup Gunsmith, 5 VT.

But I think the setup concept is funner for scum if they can "sacrifice" the Enabler for either of two possible deepwolf wincons (or also sweeping 5 man lylo), rather than being restricted to one, less flexible.

Certainly not to say it's not a setup concept worth challenging in and of itself on whether it'd be fun or not.

[Not Known 15]

Three Can Keep a Secret If

1

Mafia Traffic Analyst Enabler

2

Mafia Goon

1

Town Traffic Analyst

1

Backup Town Traffic Analyst

8

Vanilla Townie

Backup is a modifier. Traffic Analyst is a role.
The setup does not follow the rules.

[Something_Smart]

That can be trivially fixed by changing it to a Universal Backup, but the Enabler's more of an issue. I remember cfj saying somewhere that enabler is a separate role and not a modifier but the Normal guidelines beg to differ there, so I wonder how he would rule it.

[popsofctown]

S_S, the rules explicitly stat that Vanilla slots can have a modifier. The Mafia Traffic Analyst Enabler we previously a Mafia Goon, so it is ok for me to give him 1 modifier (despite Traffic Analyst Enabler being 3 words it's 1 modifier, 1 ability).

I didn't notice the thing about Backup Traffic Analyst, there's kind of like two ways of thinking about Backups, "It's a Traffic Analyst, but modified to have this restriction: you may not use your power yet unless <> dies", versus "Here is your role: the one thing you do is hope <> dies and absorb all his powers". I tend to think about it the latter way. The former way is probably better. It resolves Gunsmith on not-yet-active Backup Vig more intuitively.

Universal Backup just kind of forces you to think about it the latter way (and like, it has to be described the latter way). So I'll do that change.

[popsofctown]

Three Can Keep a Secret If

1

Mafia Traffic Analyst Enabler

2

Mafia Goon

1

Town Traffic Analyst

1

Town Universal Backup

8

Vanilla Townie

Modnote: Normal Queue Universal Backup only triggers on own alignment, so Town Universal Backup cannot inherit Traffic Analyst Enabler.

[Something_Smart]

S_S, the rules explicitly stat that Vanilla slots can have a modifier. The Mafia Traffic Analyst Enabler we previously a Mafia Goon, so it is ok for me to give him 1 modifier (despite Traffic Analyst Enabler being 3 words it's 1 modifier, 1 ability).

Yeah, and I mean that's the thing. While a traffic analyst enabler is not really a traffic analyst that's modified, the Normal rules define it as that for simplicity. Just like you can't have a Weak Townie or a Backup Townie, you can't have a Vanilla Enabler-- it has to be attached to a different role, meaning it has to either have a new specification as a role (enabler is a role that requires another role to be listed as the thing it's enabling) or be written as a modifier, and the latter is simpler.

[popsofctown]

A Traffic Analyst Enabler is a "modified Traffic Analyst"?

But a Traffic Analyst Enabler can't analyze traffic.

How does that add "simplicity"?


It seems equally logical to saying that Informed with information "This setup has a vigilante", is actually a Vigilante with a modifier.

[OkaPoka]

is my setup balanced ?

[popsofctown]

I think your setup is too townsided. If we loosely call a vig shot a lynch, vig can shoot night 1 and holster the rest of the game to compensate for the evens/odds issue, and mafia's win condition is mislynch 4 times. The informed mechanic is just about guaranteed to remove the vig before it can generate strong advantages on being a clear, but I think needing to mislynch an entire additional player is a bigger deal then the missing few clears you'd generally expect in a setup of this size. Additionally you need to remember you're making removing the vig cost something for the scum, they're losing NK/mislynch push freedom.

It is pretty slightly townsided and I'm pretty sure I have really scumsided setup preferences so everyone else might say it's about where they want it. Also I'm not that smrt.

[popsofctown]

callforjudgment can you comment on whether my setup is legal or possible to make legal?

[callforjudgement]

I consider "X Enabler" to be a role, not a modifier. The role isn't actually and cannot be an X, after all (and trying to write a role worded as though it's an X just doesn't work). So the Universal Backup version is legal.

I consider "Backup" to be a modifiier "you can't use your ability until an X has died", so that version isn't legal.

[student]

Too Many Guns (Too Many Guns)

2

Mafia Goon

1

Mafia Doctor

3

Town Gunsmith

3

1-Shot Vigilante

3

Vanilla Townie

[popsofctown]

Power roles outnumber vanilla 7:5, so it's invalid.

[student]

Thanks pops! Tweaked. (Can't have 1-shot anyhow)

Too Many Guns (Too Many Guns) V2

2

Mafia Goon

1

Mafia Doctor

3

Town Gunsmith

2

Town Vigilante

4

Vanilla Townie

[Jingle]

Do gunsmiths have guns? I don't think they do normally, but I can't remember. Either way, probably best to massclaim and then aim for the pools with the highest mafia proportion, since gsmiths are mostly useless.

[Something_Smart]

They do.

Those gunsmiths are very useful once the mafia doctor flips.

[Jingle]

Eh. They're okay useful post massclaim, but given 3 kills N1 the game doesn't last long enough for them to be a huge influence. Maf doc claims VT, Goons split into vig/gsmith. Any maf death clears townies, vigs prob shoot for the doc, mafia probably shoots a vig. Not sure EV wise, but I'd guess it leans townsided.