Cultist Recruiter Mafia

[Jingle]

Unrecruitable Cultist
Cult Recruiter

Cultist Recruiter
Unrecruitable Town
5x VT

Unrecruitable modifier is hidden (not told to the player who has it) and applies to both the town recruitment and the cult recruitment.
Cult PT has a list of all current cult members, but not a list of their roles. This list is randomized at the end of every night before any new players are given access.
Cult has daychat. Cult recruiter actions may not be submitted via PT.
Cult Recruiter being recruited to town or lynched ends the game in a town win.
Cult achieving parity ends the game in a cult win.
If both recruiters target a player, that player is not added to the cult.
Holstering actions is allowed.

[Awoo]

Cult Recruiter being recruited to town or lynched ends the game in a town win.

D1 cult recruiter claims, outs his partner (unrecruitable cultist), town lynches unrecruitable cultist. N1 he holsters his action, gets recruited by the cultist recruiter, everyone but the unrecruitable cultist wins?

[Jingle]

First of all, I'd say that's pretty clearly not playing to your current wincon (and also something no one who /ins for this setup would be likely to do) and thus actionable as a mod. Second of all, it's not a guaranteed win. The safer path to victory there for town is lynch claimed recruiter to prove they're not unrecruitable cultist gambiting to kill a town player.

Arguably, the second point makes the first point not actionable, but :shrug:

[Awoo]

Is playing to future wincon not allowed on this site or something?

I mean let's be honest, cult recruiter basically has the wincon "make it to endgame without getting lynched", so whatever he can do to achieve that, he should. Nothing is stopping him from sutbly hinting that town should recruit him tonight, when in fact that makes him win the game.

[Awoo]

I must say its a little bit weird that you can "catch" the cult leader and its like "haha you caught me i win"

[Jingle]

Is playing to future wincon not allowed on this site or something?

I mean let's be honest, cult recruiter basically has the wincon "make it to endgame without getting lynched", so whatever he can do to achieve that, he should. Nothing is stopping him from sutbly hinting that town should recruit him tonight, when in fact that makes him win the game.

There's a difference between subtly hinting and outright claiming, although I would argue that the same policy of lynch everyone who is softing cultist recruiter should negate that worry.

And yeah, in setups with roles like Judas, Saulus, and Cult it's generally agreed that you play to your current wincon (and it's thus expected that say, Saulus doesn't immediately out or town refuse to scumhunt because they believe they'll be recruited). In this particular setup, for example, the cultist recruiter COULD out D1 and cripple town's chances of winning. It's assumed they won't because why bother signing up for a setup that you don't want to play.

I'm not particularly interested in closing loopholes through which people can just make the game trivial and unfun, because honestly it's a meme setup in the first place and the expectation is people will sign up to play with cults, not pad their w/l records. Not to mention, attempting to make the game trivial and unfun has a high percent chance of just blowing up in your face anyway.

I suppose I could make the cult recruiter suicide on recruitment instead of turning protown, but I dislike that it takes away from the symmetry of the roles in a way that is covered by "Play to your current wincon" and "Don't be a dick" respectively.

[popsofctown]

I don't understand why people aren't supposed to play to their expected final wincon

[Jingle]

Because if everyone goes: "Oh, I'm probably going to be a cultist" there's no point in playing?

(And also, to a lesser extent, rolling over and letting cult win is a bad way to get recruited to a cult)

[popsofctown]

This is a surprisingly interesting setup for something that apparently somehow spawned from a 2 word post I made in a signup thread.

It seems like it would work really well as-is, it looks more fun than Cult D3.

People with brains that work like mine and Awoo's should maybe just not play these setups though.

[popsofctown]

Post 6 was a drunkpost I am here now for more critical thinky pops with feedback that is less tepid and feigns value

[popsofctown]

Cult Recruiter being recruited to town or lynched ends the game in a town win.

D1 cult recruiter claims, outs his partner (unrecruitable cultist), town lynches unrecruitable cultist. N1 he holsters his action, gets recruited by the cultist recruiter, everyone but the unrecruitable cultist wins?

I was too drunk to follow this last night but this is not playing to expected final win condition, this is kingmakers playing for someone else's win condition. If D1 Cult Recruiter claims, town should lynch Cult Recruiter and win immediately. I would modkill for a line of play with the apparent intent of arranging for the Cult Recruiter to win due to a quid-pro-quo exchange if the quid-pro-quo exchange does not improve town's probability of winning.

[popsofctown]

You'll probably say no because of setup complexity but what recruiting the cult recruiter let the unrecruitable cultist retarget that night's recruitment shot, made the unrecruitable cultist lynchproof until LyLo, and the game continues?

[Jingle]

There's no point. If the cult recruiter (or the unrecruitable cultist which is part of why that role is unrecruitable) were to turn town before LYLO, there would be no way cult could win. They simply claim and are lynched as town to prove their claim. At that point, their information is perfect and town can't lose, so any further cult recruitment is spite driven and making the players wait for a resolution is just bad.

Besides, Cult is already notoriously hard to play against, so them having an autoloss mechanic feels like more of a feature than a detriment.

[popsofctown]

There's no point. If the cult recruiter (or the unrecruitable cultist which is part of why that role is unrecruitable) were to turn town before LYLO, there would be no way cult could win. They simply claim and are lynched as town to prove their claim. At that point, their information is perfect and town can't lose, so any further cult recruitment is spite driven and making the players wait for a resolution is just bad.

Besides, Cult is already notoriously hard to play against, so them having an autoloss mechanic feels like more of a feature than a detriment.

I was suggesting an information imperfection from the last minute redirect on the cult recruitment.
After thinking more I think that's not enough because the cultist recruiter continuing to do work is about as strong as follow-the-cop

But yes I was trying to punish the town even after they managed to correctly read the cult recruiter
I want everyone playing the game to be miserable
That's the moderating instinct I'm supposed to have right?

[Bingle]

Oh, and just have the recruitment of the cult leader get rid of the whiteflag portion of the setup entirely?

I could see it, but I'd bet that the setup is already pretty scumsided as is.

[popsofctown]

No, give it no credence, stick with the setup in the OP for sure.

When Bingle is more sympathetic to something than Jingle is that's a very bad sign.

[Jingle]

Decided to run it in the micro queue. Now accepting pre-ins.

[Awoo]

People with brains that work like mine and Awoo's should maybe just not play these setups though.

Yeah...

did we ever bring up the loophole of "Hi im a former cultist but I was recruited to town and heres all the cult, can the town recruiter pls confirm" "yes i can confirm i converted him to town last night"

[Awoo]

But if the town recruiter decides to play to his current win condition and claims and they don't hit the cult leader then he gets recruited and so its actually against his final wincondition

[Bingle]

But if the town recruiter decides to play to his current win condition and claims and they don't hit the cult leader then he gets recruited and so its actually against his final wincondition

Actually, outside of LYLO the cultist recruiter not claiming is better. You just lynch the ex cultist claim and the cultist recruiter targets in the outed cult players who aren't lynched. The cultist recruiter should also always claim in LYLO, so...