[SETUP] Outerworld

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[SETUP] Outerworld

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:19 am

Post by TemporalLich »

This is a game where there is more than meets the eye. This game requires two separate sign-up queues, one for players and one for outer deities. This game should be considered a Large.

OuterworldYou must /in to player or /in to outer deity in this game.

Players actually play the game. They are allowed to post in the game thread. Players may vote and be voted, and count for the elimination threshold.

Outer deities may communicate with each other in a special Outer Deity PT, and must agree 3/4 on special effects (VOTE: tags can be used for this) each night. One special effect happens each night. Special effects can be used only once in the game. They may not post in the game thread, can't vote or be voted, and don't count for the elimination threshold.

13 players


Mafia Blessed One

2 Mafia Goons

Town Prophet

Town Blessed One

8 Vanilla Townies


4 outer deities


Mercy

Knowledge

Change

Evil


Blessed Ones may, once in the game, identify an outer deity's alignment.

The Town Prophet may choose an outer deity to empower once in the game. An empowered outer deity may unilaterally impose a special effect and proposed player once in the game. The Town Prophet is informed each night of who didn't agree on the special effect.

Town wins if the Mafia are dead.

Mafia wins if they achieve parity with the town.

Mercy wins if there is ever no elimination or kill during a phase or if Town wins without going to ELo.

Knowledge wins if they correctly guess via a PM to the moderator that someone who is alive is Mafia-aligned or the Town Prophet before Day 3 (one guess each).

Change wins if Knowledge fails to guess a Mafia-aligned player correctly or if the Town Prophet empowers them.

Evil wins if four townies die without any Mafia deaths in between or if the Mafia wins without going to ELo.

If an outer deity wins it remains in the game as an outer deity and may still agree upon special abilities and proposed players. Outer Deity wins are only announced in the Outer Deity PT.

Special effects are revealed in the main thread at the start of the next day. Proposed players are not.

Special effects:

Proposed players require 2/4 approval and are agreed upon after the effect is agreed upon.

Slow Mo
- The next day's deadline is multiplied by 4.
Fast Forward
- The next day's deadline is divided by 4.
Love
- The elimination threshold the next day is increased by 1.
Hatred
- The elimination threshold the next day is decreased by 1.
Sleep
- The threshold for No Elimination is decreased by 3, to a minimum of 1.
Nature's Blessing
- The elimination is instead a treestumping the next day.
Solstice
- The next night's deadline is divided by 2.
Shadows
- The next night's factional kill is flipless.
Power
- A proposed player has their vote weight secretly increased to 3 the next day.
Suppression
- A proposed player becomes voteless and post-restricted the next day (they may post only once per hour, at penalty of death).
Divine Intervention
- A proposed player is protected from kills that night.
Blueness
- A proposed player has their name colored blue in votecounts for the rest of the game.
Discern Purity
- A proposed player has their alignment publically revealed.
Commune With Darkness
- A proposed player has their role revealed in the Mafia PT. If that player was Mafia-aligned, they get an ability to learn a player's role at any time once in the game.
Messenger
- A proposed player gains the ability to form a neighborhood with daytalk with a player at any time once in the game.
Direct Line
- A proposed player gains a PT with an outer deity of the proposed player's choice.
This is an experimental setup. Balance likely will be off.

Mercy is intended to townside and Evil is intended to scumside. Knowledge and Change are supposed to be neutral to town/scum winrate.

The setup also needs a better name than "Outerworld".
Last edited by TemporalLich on Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:30 am

Post by Kerset »

Town will deal with gods that they can empower change and then reveal prophet for knowledge. In exchange gods will use Discern Purity. Mercy will agree because she wants town to win quickly.
Charge identity can be revealed by throwing effect at particular player.
giv me pagetop :(
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:01 am

Post by popsofctown »

Some of the power mechanick things I don't think should be mechanicked.
Keeping a player in a game after they've achieved their wincon is sus.
I would worry about replacements for deities.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:35 am

Post by chennisden »

Kerset your avatar is completely legendary.

I agree that deities should leave if they achieve wincon, and also I think deity identities should be kept hidden from each other
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:00 am

Post by TemporalLich »

If two deities win and leave the non-winners would be able to impose effects without the other's input which doesn't seem good.

The alternative would be requiring unanimity when there are two outer deities...

If deities left when winning, I'd tweak Change's second wincon to "Unilaterally impose a special effect".

Also deities don't know each other's alignment by default. For example, Mercy doesn't know the identity of her bane, Evil.

EBWOE:

These changes will be version 1.1 btw:

If an outer deity wins it leaves the game but may still talk in a Direct Line PT. If there are two or three outer deities, two need to agree on an effect.

Change's wincon is now "Change wins if they unilaterally impose an effect or if Knowledge fails to guess a Mafia-aligned player correctly."

If an outer deity requires replacement, it will be announced like a player announcement (safest option tbh, the alternative would be using a modkill instead)

If an effect fails to be decided during the night, the first unused effect on the list will be used.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:30 pm

Post by popsofctown »

If it's possible to redesign the game to where you can modkill outer deities that'd be helpful, that may or may not be feasible.

I think it's really worth it to design the game to where people aren't playing if they don't have a win condition though it's really annoying for the players with a win condition anytime that happens.
Like if I have a direct line to nsg already-won-Knowledge because I replaced in for chennisden and I see all her help with his solves in the pt and when I get there she says she's too bored to read the thread and keep solving the game for me I would feel so hurt and cry.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:30 pm

Post by popsofctown »

In post 3, chennisden wrote:Kerset your avatar is completely legendary.
WOW guess I know who's Team Mafia team you're really on omg smh
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:38 pm

Post by TemporalLich »

In post 5, popsofctown wrote:If it's possible to redesign the game to where you can modkill outer deities that'd be helpful, that may or may not be feasible.

I think it's really worth it to design the game to where people aren't playing if they don't have a win condition though it's really annoying for the players with a win condition anytime that happens.
Like if I have a direct line to nsg already-won-Knowledge because I replaced in for chennisden and I see all her help with his solves in the pt and when I get there she says she's too bored to read the thread and keep solving the game for me I would feel so hurt and cry.
Modkilling an outer deity (either for unsafe replacement rules or for their slot being compromised) is as simple as making the outer deity immediately leave (which affects the special effects like leaving and winning does), changing their alignment to Neutral Survivor so they can't win, and announcing that they have been modkilled in the Outer Deity PT.

The problem is that every offense that would be force-replaceable under the safe replacement rules is modkillable under the unsafe replacement rules, which would require listmod intervention under Requiring Modkills.

I might consider closing Direct Line PTs that contain an outer deity that has either left or been modkilled btw.

yeah prophet is going to lose the "The Town Prophet is informed each night of who didn't agree on the special effect." ability.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:50 pm

Post by popsofctown »

You do NOT need listmod approval for modkills that considered part of the setup. It is preferred you warn the listmod what the setup-specific modkills are and why, but once you do that they can be performed without approval.
Exceptions such as when a modkill is an explicit part of a game's mechanics, such as mafia games with strict post restrictions, will be allowed provided it is a theme game and players are informed before signing up.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:54 pm

Post by TemporalLich »

The unsafe replacement rules are "If an outer deity were to ever need replacement for any reason including inactivity, they are instead modkilled." (This is to avoid announcing that a Outer Deity is being force-replaced publically for inactivity or rule breaches, also players chose to sign up as Outer Deity despite being warned of this fact)

Also outer deity prods are in the Outer Deity PT regardless of whether the replacement rules are safe or unsafe.
Last edited by TemporalLich on Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:58 pm

Post by popsofctown »

I'm a little confused by your terminology but it sounds like we agree.

I think random loss of certain deities could skew the game scumwise or townwise but never so much the game is unplayable so it seems like a good way to go. Maybe add an additional scumsiding and townsiding deity to improve the odds you have a few deities playing through the end of the game?

I think I already like this setup better than, like, Guns and Roses
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:14 pm

Post by TemporalLich »

In post 10, popsofctown wrote:I'm a little confused by your terminology but it sounds like we agree.

I think random loss of certain deities could skew the game scumwise or townwise but never so much the game is unplayable so it seems like a good way to go. Maybe add an additional scumsiding and townsiding deity to improve the odds you have a few deities playing through the end of the game?

I think I already like this setup better than, like, Guns and Roses
safe replacement rules are announcing outer deity replacements publically, unsafe replacement rules are similar to the BaM replacement rules, privately modkilling outer deities instead of replacing them.

I might consider adding in a weak townsiding and scumsiding deity, perhaps
Unity
and
Corruption
would work. I do want
Mercy
and
Evil
to have a vested interest in one alignment over the other though, but not just be a town or scum aligned outer deity.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:27 pm

Post by TemporalLich »

Here is two extra outer deities to soften the effect of losing
Mercy
or
Evil
.

Unity
- Wins if two unique proposed players in a row are Town-aligned or if they can correctly guess D3's lynch before the end of Night 2.
Corruption
- Wins if a Mafioso is proposed twice or if they can correctly guess N3's kill target before the end of Night 2.

The special effect rules become "Outer deities must vote on special effects each Night. The special effect vote has a threshold calculated like a lynch threshold but counting outer deities instead of players. One special effect happens each night. Special effects can be used only once in the game. Proposed players require one less vote than special effects. If an effect fails to be decided during the night, the first unused effect on the list will be used."

I am likely amending
Evil
's win con to only require three townies dying in a row.

I was also considering a special effect to allow the outer deities to write a message to be publically posted by the moderator and a special effect to render someone ineligible for lynching, but I am not keen on adding those effects.

I was also also considering secret effects that required both a prophet and a blessed one, but those were overpowered and were instant win buttons (e.g. Knowledge's secret effect would have allowed the outer deities to read the Mafia PT)
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:29 am

Post by Kerset »

So what happens when a deity wins?
giv me pagetop :(
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:04 am

Post by TemporalLich »

Outerworld v2.0You must /in to player or /in to outer deity in this game.

Warning
: If you sign up as an outer deity, you will be
modkilled
if you would normally need a replacement, including for inactivity! Outer Deity modkills will only be announced in the Outer Deity PT.


Players actually play the game. They are allowed to post in the game thread. Players may vote and be voted, and count for the lynch threshold.

Outer deities may communicate with each other in a special Outer Deity PT. Outer deities must vote on special effects (in the Outer Deity PT) each Night. The special effect vote has a threshold calculated like a lynch threshold but counting outer deities instead of players. One special effect happens each night. Special effects can be used only once in the game. Proposed players require one less vote than special effects (but can't be 1 unless there is 1 remaining outer deity). If an effect fails to be decided during the night, the first unused effect on the list will be used.

19 total sign-ups


13 players


Mafia Blessed One

2 Mafia Goons

Town Prophet

Town Blessed One

8 Vanilla Townies


6 outer deities


Mercy

Unity

Knowledge

Change

Corruption

Evil


Blessed Ones may, once in the game, identify an outer deity's alignment.

The Town Prophet may choose an outer deity to empower once in the game. An empowered outer deity may unilaterally impose a special effect and proposed player once in the game.

Town wins if the Mafia are dead.

Mafia wins if they achieve parity with the town.

Mercy wins if there is ever no lynch or kill during a phase or if Town wins without going to LyLo.

Unity wins if two unique proposed players in a row are Town-aligned or if they can correctly guess D3's lynch before the end of Night 2.

Knowledge wins if they correctly guess via a PM to the moderator that someone who is alive is Mafia-aligned or the Town Prophet before Day 3 (one guess each).

Change wins if Knowledge fails to guess a Mafia-aligned player correctly or if they unilaterally impose an effect.

Corruption wins if a Mafioso is proposed twice ever or if they can correctly guess N3's kill target before the end of Night 2.

Evil wins if three townies die without any Mafia deaths in between or if the Mafia wins without going to LyLo.

If an outer deity wins it leaves the game. Outer Deity wins are only announced in the Outer Deity PT.

Special effects are revealed in the main thread at the start of the next day. Proposed players are not.

Special effects:

Slow Mo
- The next day's deadline is multiplied by 4.
Fast Forward
- The next day's deadline is divided by 4.
Love
- The lynch threshold the next day is increased by 1.
Hatred
- The lynch threshold the next day is decreased by 1.
Sleep
- The threshold for No Lynching is decreased by 3, to a minimum of 1.
Nature's Blessing
- The lynch is instead a treestumping the next day.
Solstice
- The next night's deadline is divided by 2.
Shadows
- The next night's factional kill is flipless.
Power
- A proposed player has their vote weight secretly increased to 3 the next day.
Suppression
- A proposed player becomes voteless and post-restricted the next day (they may post only once per hour, at penalty of death).
Divine Intervention
- A proposed player is protected from kills that night.
Blueness
- A proposed player has their name colored blue in votecounts for the rest of the game.
Discern Purity
- A proposed player has their alignment publically revealed.
Commune With Darkness
- A proposed player has their role revealed in the Mafia PT. If that player was Mafia-aligned, they get an ability to learn a player's role at any time once in the game.
Messenger
- A proposed player gains the ability to form a neighborhood with daytalk with a player at any time once in the game.
Direct Line
- A proposed player gains a PT with a proposed outer deity.
v2.0 of Outerworld with new deities, deities leaving when winning, and the unsafe replacement rules.
Last edited by TemporalLich on Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:16 am

Post by popsofctown »

This looks better.

Are you sure you want effects publicly revealed? Publically revealing that "Power" won is probably going to result in people doing unofficial voting and condemning those who throw their votes around as lolhammerers, even if it's not clear who got the multivoting. That's still possibly optimal play if you conceal what effect won but it becomes such a narrow possibility that the lolhammers might happen, which grants more agency to the outer deities. Which, my main concern with this setup is how much agency the outer deities actually have.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:35 am

Post by TemporalLich »

In post 15, popsofctown wrote:This looks better.

Are you sure you want effects publicly revealed? Publically revealing that "Power" won is probably going to result in people doing unofficial voting and condemning those who throw their votes around as lolhammerers, even if it's not clear who got the multivoting. That's still possibly optimal play if you conceal what effect won but it becomes such a narrow possibility that the lolhammers might happen, which grants more agency to the outer deities. Which, my main concern with this setup is how much agency the outer deities actually have.
It's less bastard that way tbh. Otherwise not knowing Nature's Blessing or Power is in effect until it is too late can really destroy games. Also Suppression is a lot more WIFOMy with it being known it is in effect.

As a sidenote, the player affected by Power knows they are affected by Power.

Several effects would be obvious either way such as Slow Mo and Discern Purity.

Also I really should add that outer deities choose a special effect during pregame.

If I changed it to not knowing effects I'd need to add more effects that took advantage of not being obvious, and consider making Nature's Blessing, Power, and Suppression obvious.

On a last note, I might considering adding an effect that allows three effects to be voted on the next night.
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:11 am

Post by TemporalLich »

High power concealed special effects list:

Higher power effects to hopefully give the outer deities more agency. This will be more bastard than the low power effects.

Effects are not revealed unless it says they are revealed. Proposed players are never revealed.

Slow Mo
- The next day's deadline is multiplied by 5. This effect is revealed.
Fast Forward
- The next day's deadline is divided by 5. This effect is revealed.
Love
- The lynch threshold the next day is increased by 2, to a maximum of alive players minus 1. This effect is revealed.
Hatred
- The lynch threshold the next day is decreased by 2, to a minimum of 1. This effect is revealed.
Sleep
- The threshold for No Lynching is decreased by 4, to a minimum of 1. This effect is revealed.
Nature's Blessing
- The lynch is instead a treestumping the next day.
Solstice
- The next night's deadline is divided by 2. This effect is revealed the next night.
Shadows
- The next night's factional kill is flipless.
Secrets
- The outer deities gain access to the Mafia PT (but may not post there).
Visions
- The outer deities each gain a 1-shot Mailman ability to be used at any time.
Power
- A proposed player has their vote weight secretly increased to 3 the next day. Said player will know.
Suppression
- A proposed player becomes voteless and post-restricted the next day (they may post only once per hour, at penalty of death).
Divine Intervention
- A proposed player is protected from kills that night and the next night.
Blueness
- A proposed player has their name colored blue in votecounts for the rest of the game. This effect is revealed.
Discern Purity
- A proposed player has their alignment publically revealed. This effect is revealed.
Commune With Darkness
- A proposed player has their role revealed in the Mafia PT. If that player was Mafia-aligned, they get an ability to learn a player's role at any time once in the game. This effect is only revealed in the Mafia PT.
Messenger
- A proposed player gains a 2-shot neighborizer ability.
Direct Line
- A proposed player gains a PT with a proposed outer deity.
Soul Seeking
- A proposed player gains a 2-shot tracker ability.
Divine Shield
- A proposed player becomes loved (needs one more vote to lynch than normal) for the rest of the game.
Imposition
- A proposed player becomes ineligible for lynching the next day. The moderator will reveal that said player is ineligible for lynching.
Nullify
- A proposed player becomes ineligible for being a proposed player for the rest of the game.
Outer Deity's Fury
- The outer deities vote on three special effects the next night.
Once Again
- A proposed special effect becomes usable again.
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:17 pm

Post by TemporalLich »

Here's a term replaced version of this setup, with the concealed powers list, and some extra effects. Also pregame has an effect applied now. Considering adding Normal PRs to this setup.

Outerworld v3.0You must /in to player or /in to outer deity in this game.

Warning
: If you sign up as an outer deity, you will be
modkilled
if you would normally need a replacement, including for inactivity! Outer Deity modkills will only be announced in the Outer Deity PT.


That being said, outer deity activity rules can be relaxed a little.

Players actually play the game. They are allowed to post in the game thread. Players may vote and be voted, and count for the elimination threshold.

Outer deities may communicate with each other in a special Outer Deity PT. Outer deities must vote on special effects (in the Outer Deity PT) each Night and during pregame. The special effect vote has a threshold calculated like an elimination threshold but counting outer deities instead of players. One special effect happens each night and during pregame, unless Outer Deity's Fury was used. Special effects can be used only once in the game. Proposed players require one less vote than special effects (but can't be 1 unless there is 1 remaining outer deity). If an effect fails to be decided during the night, the first unused effect on the list will be used.

19 total sign-ups


13 players


Mafia Blessed One

2 Mafia Goons

Town Prophet

Town Blessed One

8 Vanilla Townies


6 outer deities


Mercy

Unity

Knowledge

Change

Corruption

Evil


Blessed Ones may, once in the game, identify an outer deity's alignment.

The Town Prophet may choose an outer deity to empower once in the game. An empowered outer deity may unilaterally impose a special effect and proposed player once in the game.

Town wins if the Mafia are dead.

Mafia wins if they achieve parity with the town.

Mercy wins if there is ever no elimination or kill during a phase or if Town wins without going to ELo.

Unity wins if two unique proposed players in a row are Town-aligned or if they can correctly guess D3's elimination before the end of Night 2.

Knowledge wins if they correctly guess via a PM to the moderator that someone who is alive is Mafia-aligned or the Town Prophet before Day 3 (one guess each).

Change wins if Knowledge fails to guess a Mafia-aligned player correctly or if they unilaterally impose an effect.

Corruption wins if a Mafioso is proposed twice ever or if they can correctly guess N3's kill target before the end of Night 2.

Evil wins if three townies die without any Mafia deaths in between or if the Mafia wins without going to ELo.

If an outer deity wins it leaves the game. Outer Deity wins are only announced in the Outer Deity PT.

Special effects are not revealed unless it says they are revealed. Proposed players are not revealed unless it explicitly states the player is revealed (as with Blueness).

Special effects:

Slow Mo
- The next day's deadline is multiplied by 5. This effect is revealed.
Fast Forward
- The next day's deadline is divided by 5. This effect is revealed.
Love
- The elimination threshold the next day is increased by 2, to a maximum of alive players minus 1. This effect is revealed.
Hatred
- The elimination threshold the next day is decreased by 2, to a minimum of 1. This effect is revealed.
Sleep
- The threshold for No Elimination is decreased by 4, to a minimum of 1. This effect is revealed.
Nature's Blessing
- The elimination is instead a treestumping the next day. Treestumped players may post, but may not vote or act and don't count as alive.
Ghostly Curse
- The elimination is instead a restless spiritization the next day. Restless Spirits may post naked votes, but may not post content or act and don't count as alive.
Solstice
- The next night's deadline is divided by 2. This effect is revealed the next night.
Shadows
- The next night's factional kill is flipless.
Secrets
- The outer deities gain access to the Mafia PT (but may not post there).
Visions
- The outer deities each gain a 1-shot Mailman ability to be used on players at any time.
Prophesy
- The Town Prophet gains another shot of their ability.
Day of Rest
- Activity rules are nullified the next day.
Power
- A proposed player has their vote weight secretly increased to 3 the next day. Said player will know.
Suppression
- A proposed player becomes voteless and post-restricted the next day (they may post only once per hour, at penalty of death). Said player will know.
Divine Intervention
- A proposed player is protected from kills that night and the next night.
Blueness
- A proposed player has their name colored
blue
in votecounts for the rest of the game. This effect is revealed, and the proposed player is revealed.
Redness
- A proposed player has their name colored
red
in votecounts for the rest of the game. This effect is revealed, and the proposed player is revealed.
Discern Purity
- A proposed player has their alignment publically revealed. This effect is revealed, and the proposed player is revealed.
Commune With Darkness
- A proposed player has their flip revealed in the Mafia PT. If that player was Mafia-aligned, they get an ability to learn a player's role at any time once in the game. This effect is only revealed in the Mafia PT, and the proposed player is only revealed in the Mafia PT.
Messenger
- A proposed player gains a 2-shot neighborizer ability.
Direct Line
- A proposed player gains a PT with a proposed outer deity.
Soul Seeking
- A proposed player gains a 2-shot tracker ability.
Boon of Law
- A proposed player gains a 1-shot jailkeeper ability.
Divine Shield
- A proposed player becomes loved (needs one more vote to eliminate than normal) for the rest of the game.
Demonic Sunder
- A proposed player becomes hated (needs one less vote to eliminate than normal) for the rest of the game.
Imposition
- A proposed player becomes ineligible for elimination the next day. This effect is revealed, and the proposed player is revealed.
Nullify
- A proposed player becomes ineligible for being a proposed player for the rest of the game.
Outer Deity's Fury
- The outer deities vote on three special effects the next night.
Once Again
- A proposed special effect becomes usable again.
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:20 pm

Post by TemporalLich »

Considering tweaking Knowledge's wincon to avoid weird kingmaker scenarios and Change's wincon to make Change more fun to play.

Knowledge proposed wincon change - Knowledge wins if they correctly guess via a PM to the moderator that someone who is alive is Mafia-aligned before Day 3, or if three unique proposed players are vanilla.
Change proposed wincon change - Change wins if Knowledge fails to guess a Mafia-aligned player correctly before Day 3, or if a power role is proposed twice in a row.
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:58 am

Post by TemporalLich »

The latest revision of the setup is here: Outerworld

Right now I'm looking for reviewers.
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:27 am

Post by callforjudgement »

I would expect the correct Outer Deity replacement rules to be to, from the players' point of view, treat it as a secret alt game; replacements are announced to the Outer Deities, but the players will be unaware that anything has changed.

I would expect scum to have advantage over town in the player half of the setup. The Outer Deity effects seem unlikely to townside the setup all that much (in fact, they may even scumside it), and 2 Named Townies + 8 VT versus 3 Goons is scumsided. The basic issue here is that although the Outer Deities have the ability to townside the setup, I don't see why they would use it. So in practice, a lot will come down to whether the Prophet can empower a suitable deity to break the deadlock.

There is a breaking strategy: Mercy + Unity + Change + Corruption can cooperate to arrange a win for town and all four of those deities. The basic idea is to use Secrets (which is completely broken) to get into the Mafia PT and thus discover the whole scumteam, then communicate this information to the players, one scumteam member at a time, using proposals on scum for at least two of these communications. Mercy wins due to two consecutive votes on scum; Unity predicts the D3 elimination (it'll be the player who was confirmed as scum at that point); Knowledge wins based on knowing the scumteam; and Corruption wins from proposals. Actually, it seems likely that the setup will need substantial revision to stop an agreement between a majority of Outer Deities simply taking over the game, as in this strategy. (As a side note, the same four players can win in just two days, and probably will, leaving town knowing two members of the scumteam and not the third. After all, there's no particular reason why you'd have to arrange a win for town in the process of taking over.)

On a more minor note, Restless Spirits need a restriction on how often they can vote, otherwise they'll just vote a lot to send coded messages, which is no fun for anyone.
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:51 am

Post by TemporalLich »

You might be reviewing an old version of the setup as you say 2 Named Townies instead of 2 Masons, so I will post the new version of the setup here for clarity. I will add a note that outer deities can /in like a secret alt game and I have rate limited the Restless Spirit:

Outerworld v4.0You must /in to player or /in to outer deity in this game. You may treat Outer Deity /ins and replacements like a Secret Alt game in and require they PM you their /in.

Players actually play the game. They are allowed to post in the game thread. Players may vote and be voted, and count for the elimination threshold.

Outer deities may communicate with each other in a special Outer Deity PT. Outer deities must vote on special effects (in the Outer Deity PT) each Night and during pregame. The special effect vote has a threshold calculated like an elimination threshold but counting outer deities instead of players. One special effect happens each night and during pregame, unless Outer Deity's Fury was used. Special effects can be used only once in the game. Proposed players require one less vote than special effects (but can't be 1 unless there is 1 remaining outer deity). If an effect fails to be decided during the night, the first unused effect on the list will be used.

19 total sign-ups


13 players


Mafia Shadowy One

2 Mafia Goons

Town Prophet

Town Blessed One

8 Vanilla Townies


6 outer deities


Mercy

Unity

Knowledge

Change

Corruption

Evil


The Mafia Shadowy One may, once in the game, reveal an outer deity's alignment in the Mafia PT.

The Town Blessed One may, once in the game, publically reveal an outer deity's alignment. They are in the Temple PT (mason lodge).

The Town Prophet may choose an outer deity to empower once in the game. An empowered outer deity may unilaterally impose a special effect and proposed player once in the game. They are in the Temple PT (mason lodge).

Town wins if the Mafia are dead.

Mafia wins if they achieve parity with the town.

Mercy wins if two Mafiosi die with at most one townie death in between or if Town wins without going to ELo.

Unity wins if two unique proposed players in a row are Town-aligned or if they can correctly guess D3's elimination before the end of Night 2.

Knowledge wins if they correctly guess via a PM to the moderator that someone who is alive is Mafia-aligned before Day 3, or if the game hasn't ended by the time 3 or 4 players are alive.

Change wins if Knowledge fails to guess a Mafia-aligned player correctly before Day 3, or if the game ends with at most 1 elimination on either Town or Mafia.

Corruption wins if a Mafioso is proposed twice ever or if they can correctly guess N3's kill target before the end of Night 2.

Evil wins if four townies die without any Mafia deaths in between or if the Mafia wins without going to ELo.

If an outer deity wins it leaves the game. Outer Deity wins are only announced in the Outer Deity PT.

Outer deity prods are announced only on the Outer Deity PT, outer deity replacements are announced publically however unless you are treating Outer Deity /ins as a Secret Alt game and have a private outer deity replacement queue. In a Outer Deity Secret Alt game Outer Deity replacements may still be announced in the Outer Deity PT as "{account} has undergone replacement."

Special effects are not revealed unless it says they are revealed. Proposed players are not revealed unless it explicitly states the player is revealed (as with Blueness).

Special effects:

Slow Mo
- The next day's deadline is multiplied by 5. This effect is revealed.
Fast Forward
- The next day's deadline is divided by 5. This effect is revealed.
Love
- The elimination threshold the next day is increased by 2, to a maximum of alive players minus 1. This effect is revealed. This effect fails in ELo or MeLo.
Hatred
- The elimination threshold the next day is decreased by 2, to a minimum of 1. This effect is revealed. This effect fails in ELo or MeLo.
Sleep
- The threshold for No Elimination is decreased by 4, to a minimum of 1. This effect is revealed.
Nature's Blessing
- The elimination is instead a Treestumping the next day. Treestumped players may post, but may not vote or act and don't count as alive.
Ghostly Curse
- The elimination is instead a Restless Spiritization the next day. Restless Spirits may post naked votes once every 24 hours, but may not post content or act and don't count as alive. Restless spirits die completely if the game ever reaches ELo or MeLo.
Solstice
- The next night's deadline is divided by 2. This effect is revealed the next night.
Subterfuge
- The next night's factional kill has the flip suppressed.
Delay Death
- The next night's factional kill is instead an announcing poison.
Visions
- The outer deities each gain a 1-shot Mailman ability to be used on players at any time.
Light
- The Blessed One gains another shot of their ability.
Shadows
- The Shadowy One gains another shot of their ability.
Prophesy
- The Town Prophet gains another shot of their ability.
Day of Rest
- Activity rules are nullified the next day. This effect is revealed.
Power
- A proposed player has their vote weight secretly increased to 3 the next day. Said player will know. This effect fails in ELo or MeLo.
Suppression
- A proposed player becomes voteless and post-restricted the next day (they may post only once per hour, at penalty of death). Said player will know. The proposed player will not be made voteless in ELo or MeLo.
Divine Intervention
- A proposed player is protected from kills that night and the next night.
Blueness
- A proposed player has their name colored
blue
in votecounts for the rest of the game. This effect is revealed, and the proposed player is revealed.
Greenness
- A proposed player has their name colored
green
in votecounts for the rest of the game. This effect is revealed, and the proposed player is revealed.
Redness
- A proposed player has their name colored
red
in votecounts for the rest of the game. This effect is revealed, and the proposed player is revealed.
Discern Purity
- A proposed player has their alignment publically revealed. This effect is revealed, and the proposed player is revealed.
Commune With Darkness
- A proposed player has their flip revealed in the Mafia PT. If that player was Mafia-aligned, they get an ability to learn a player's role at any time once in the game. This effect is only revealed in the Mafia PT, and the proposed player is only revealed in the Mafia PT.
Messenger
- A proposed player gains a 2-shot neighborizer ability.
Direct Line
- A proposed player gains a PT with a proposed outer deity. Outer deities may still communicate in Direct Line PTs even if they won.
Soul Seeking
- A proposed player gains a 2-shot tracker ability.
Boon of Law
- A proposed player gains a 1-shot jailkeeper ability.
Gift of Chaos
- A proposed player gains a 1-shot day vigilante ability.
Angelic Shield
- A proposed player becomes loved (needs one more vote to eliminate than normal) for the rest of the game, except in ELo or MeLo.
Demonic Sunder
- A proposed player becomes hated (needs one less vote to eliminate than normal) for the rest of the game, except in ELo or MeLo.
Imposition
- A proposed player becomes ineligible for elimination the next day. This effect is revealed, and the proposed player is revealed. This effect fails in ELo or MeLo.
Nullify
- A proposed player becomes ineligible for being a proposed player for the rest of the game.
Revelation
- A proposed outer deity gains the ability to post in the game thread. This effect is revealed.
Secrets
- A proposed outer deity gains access to the Mafia PT, and may post there. This effect is only revealed in the Mafia PT if the outer deity posts in the Mafia PT.
Consecration
- A proposed outer deity gains access to the Temple PT, and may post there. This effect is only revealed in the Temple PT if the outer deity posts in the Temple PT.
Outer Deity's Fury
- The outer deities vote on three special effects the next night.
Once Again
- A proposed special effect becomes usable again.
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:57 am

Post by callforjudgement »

Secrets is still completely broken (and in general, it wouldn't surprise me if the game ended up being decided by a conspiracy of four Outer Deities, there are likely to be lots of combinations that work).

I think you might want some sort of self-balancing mechanism in which if an Outer Deity is outvoted, their vote is higher on the next vote.
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:04 am

Post by TemporalLich »

There's no possible way to do Secrets in a way that doesn't allow the proposed outer deity to just leak the scumteam in the Outer Deity PT that doesn't involve a post restriction.

Outer deity collusion would require one outer deity to work with their rival, I did make it so all 6 deities can theoretically win but it shouldn't be easy for both you and your rival to win. I am not against bumping up outer deities that were off the special effect wagon to 1.5 vote weight the next Night.
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