[SETUP] Alternate-KP (Open 13p)

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
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[SETUP] Alternate-KP (Open 13p)

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:11 am

Post by Sirius9121 »

Mafia Odd-night Roleblocker x1
Mafia Even-night Role Cop x1
Mafia Goon x1

Town Vigilante x1
Town Doctor x1
Town VT x8


Would like a 13P game. Possibly 12P but not 14P.
(Just for fun)
余命数か月ばかりの恋に点滴で扶養する患者達
被害者の甘い期待を弔い悔悟の機会を躊躇うドクター
所以など行方知らず未知の病巣に臥す患者達
発熱が死因 然れば早期に躊躇すべきだったと知る放火犯
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:49 am

Post by Isis »

I would keep it at 13p since this seems to lean scumsided as it stands. But not so much I want to remove entire roles.. I think.
I'd maybe nudge it by making the rolecop a motiondetector
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:47 pm

Post by Sirius9121 »

So a Tracker/Watcher?
余命数か月ばかりの恋に点滴で扶養する患者達
被害者の甘い期待を弔い悔悟の機会を躊躇うドクター
所以など行方知らず未知の病巣に臥す患者達
発熱が死因 然れば早期に躊躇すべきだったと知る放火犯
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:17 am

Post by BBmolla »

It's swingy dependent on how good the vig is tbh
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:18 am

Post by BBmolla »

Should be fine? But, if Vig is gonna shoot they want to do it night 1 and night 2.

13 - elim, vig, nk
10 - elim, vig nk
7 - lylo if no mafia killed
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:19 am

Post by BBmolla »

Without the 14p, it's very likely to end up as a MYLO though (assume at least one kill is blocked somehow).
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:32 pm

Post by Sirius9121 »

Nerf Vigilante?
余命数か月ばかりの恋に点滴で扶養する患者達
被害者の甘い期待を弔い悔悟の機会を躊躇うドクター
所以など行方知らず未知の病巣に臥す患者達
発熱が死因 然れば早期に躊躇すべきだったと知る放火犯
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:03 am

Post by Isis »

you could split it into an odd night and even night vig

I don't get the gripe with a PR having a lot of agency if you don't want certain slots to have more agency then play vanilla setups
It's a vig, not a governor, if you have a bad vig and want to win the setup have good reads and eliminate them
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:32 am

Post by Kerset »

In open, unlike normal every PR is named townie. Here we got confirmable vig with infinite bullets and hidden doc protection. Macho vigi is way to go.
giv me pagetop :(
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:41 am

Post by Kerset »

In post 4, BBmolla wrote:Should be fine? But, if Vig is gonna shoot they want to do it night 1 and night 2.

13 - elim, vig, nk
10 - elim, vig nk
7 - lylo if no mafia killed
To solve this i would suggest desperado (Role). Once he gets things wrong he dies and creates IC. It is also less rage inducing.
giv me pagetop :(
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:46 am

Post by Sirius9121 »

Mafia Odd-night Roleblocker/Motion Detector x1
Mafia Even-night Role Cop x1
Mafia Goon x1

Town One-shot Desperado x1
Town Even-Night Macho Vigilante x1
Town Doctor x1
Town VT x7
余命数か月ばかりの恋に点滴で扶養する患者達
被害者の甘い期待を弔い悔悟の機会を躊躇うドクター
所以など行方知らず未知の病巣に臥す患者達
発熱が死因 然れば早期に躊躇すべきだったと知る放火犯
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:37 am

Post by Isis »

doccing the desperado cleared player over and over is a little boring but not the end of the world I guess
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:37 am

Post by Isis »

Indecisive on the doctor maybe
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:11 pm

Post by Sirius9121 »

Two-shot Doctor?
Or Even-Night?
余命数か月ばかりの恋に点滴で扶養する患者達
被害者の甘い期待を弔い悔悟の機会を躊躇うドクター
所以など行方知らず未知の病巣に臥す患者達
発熱が死因 然れば早期に躊躇すべきだったと知る放火犯
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:22 pm

Post by Isis »

I think the Indecisive modifier fits the setup, it should be a pretty fun play pattern since it's actually defensible to just not protect the desperado cleared player sometimes even though you could. If you really don't like the Indecisive modifier then Even Night would be preferable rather than 2-shot since the 2-shot doctor might feel a little bad for shooting N1 before a D2 desperado incident. (2 shot Novice would more or less fix that concern but I don't expect that to be more appealing than indecisive.
Once you have a vig, doctor, and despie I think you want the more powerful roleblocker rather than the motion detector on the scum side of things.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:25 pm

Post by Sirius9121 »

Mafia Odd-night Roleblocker/Motion Detector x1
Mafia Even-night Role Cop x1
Mafia Goon x1

Town One-shot Desperado x1
Town Even-Night Macho Vigilante x1
Town Indecisive Doctor x1
Town VT x7
余命数か月ばかりの恋に点滴で扶養する患者達
被害者の甘い期待を弔い悔悟の機会を躊躇うドクター
所以など行方知らず未知の病巣に臥す患者達
発熱が死因 然れば早期に躊躇すべきだったと知る放火犯
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:38 pm

Post by Isis »

i like that setup better than several approved opens fwiw
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:05 pm

Post by Sirius9121 »

thanks lol
余命数か月ばかりの恋に点滴で扶養する患者達
被害者の甘い期待を弔い悔悟の機会を躊躇うドクター
所以など行方知らず未知の病巣に臥す患者達
発熱が死因 然れば早期に躊躇すべきだったと知る放火犯
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:07 pm

Post by Sirius9121 »

Mafia Odd-night Roleblocker x1
Mafia Even-night Role Cop x1
Mafia Goon x1

Town One-shot Desperado x1
Town Even-Night Macho Vigilante x1
Town Indecisive Doctor x1
Town VT x7


this looks very good
余命数か月ばかりの恋に点滴で扶養する患者達
被害者の甘い期待を弔い悔悟の機会を躊躇うドクター
所以など行方知らず未知の病巣に臥す患者達
発熱が死因 然れば早期に躊躇すべきだったと知る放火犯
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:28 pm

Post by Sirius9121 »

Does Even-Night take precedence over Macho, i.e. can the Vigilante be protected on odd nights?
余命数か月ばかりの恋に点滴で扶養する患者達
被害者の甘い期待を弔い悔悟の機会を躊躇うドクター
所以など行方知らず未知の病巣に臥す患者達
発熱が死因 然れば早期に躊躇すべきだったと知る放火犯
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:21 am

Post by Isis »

You can make it work however you want as long as you specify since it's an Open, but the normal way it would work is that the Vigilante is macho on both even and odd nights but can only perform kills on even nights.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:57 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

I prefer to order role name components so that they are unambiguous, i.e. Town Macho Even-Night Vigilante.

I would parse Town Even-Night Macho Vigilante as a role that could kill every night, but could be protected only on odd nights, which is the opposite of what you'd want.
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:03 pm

Post by Sirius9121 »

Mafia Odd-night Roleblocker x1
Mafia Even-night Role Cop x1
Mafia Goon x1

Town One-shot Desperado x1
Town Macho Even-Night Vigilante x1
Town Indecisive Doctor x1
Town VT x7


Is this setup done?
余命数か月ばかりの恋に点滴で扶養する患者達
被害者の甘い期待を弔い悔悟の機会を躊躇うドクター
所以など行方知らず未知の病巣に臥す患者達
発熱が死因 然れば早期に躊躇すべきだったと知る放火犯
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:58 am

Post by Isis »

I think so.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:29 am

Post by Sirius9121 »

Is it possible to make it an 'approved open setup'?
余命数か月ばかりの恋に点滴で扶養する患者達
被害者の甘い期待を弔い悔悟の機会を躊躇うドクター
所以など行方知らず未知の病巣に臥す患者達
発熱が死因 然れば早期に躊躇すべきだったと知る放火犯
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