[SETUP] The Last Of The Red-Horned Dung Beetles

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[SETUP] The Last Of The Red-Horned Dung Beetles

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:54 am

Post by Something_Smart »

Don't ask me why I came up with this setup. I have no clue.

Breaking news! A live specimen of the Red-Horned Dung Beetle (Scarabaeus perplexia), once thought to be extinct, has been discovered deep in the African jungle. As far as we know, this is the only living Red-Horned Dung Beetle left in existence, and that has caught the attention of some... rather eccentric collectors, who seem to be abandoning scruples in an attempt to capture it.

The beetle was placed in the care of Dr. Zenkava of the University of Warsaw, but it seems there has been some grave news on this front. Dr. Zenkava was shot outside of the laboratory and is now in critical condition at Orłowskiego Hospital. We can only hope that Dr. Zenkava is able to recover quickly enough to identify the attacker, who is still at large. In the meantime, a new caretaker for the beetle must be found...


2 Mafia Goons

7 Townies


All townies have an equal chance of being a
Gardener
, a
Sentry
, or a
Surgeon
.

The
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
begins the game with no caretaker. During any day in which it has no caretaker, players may-- but do not have to-- make a majority vote to place the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
in the care of a player. If a Mafia member ever becomes the caretaker of the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
, the Mafia win immediately. (This means that any player receiving it is confirmed as town, if the game continues.) If the caretaker of the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
dies, it will revert to having no caretaker.

During the night, the players may take the following actions:

Mafia Goon
-- each night, one Mafia member may carry out the factional kill on a player of their choice.
Mafia Goon
-- each night, if the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
has no caretaker, a Mafia member may attempt to steal it. If successful, the Mafia member will come into possession of it, and thus win the game.

Town Gardener
-- each night, the Gardener may choose one of two options, either (1) target a player and learn whether or not that player has attempted to steal the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
on this night or any previous night; or (2) target a player and make them permanently unable to possess the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
(if they are voted to receive it, instead nothing will happen, and if they attempt to steal it the attempt will automatically fail).

Town Sentry
-- once per game, if the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
has no caretaker, the Sentry may choose one of two options, either (1) defend the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
, preventing one random player from stealing it; or (2) attempt to steal the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
, becoming its new caretaker if successful. If multiple players make an unblocked attempt to steal the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
in the same night, one will succeed at random.
Town Sentry
-- once per game, if the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
has a caretaker, the Sentry may choose to guard that caretaker. If the caretaker would die at night, the Sentry dies instead. If multiple Sentries guard a player who is attacked, one dies at random. If the Sentry guards a player who is also healed by a Surgeon, the Sentry will still die.

Town Surgeon
-- each night, the Surgeon may choose one of two options, either (1) heal a player, protecting them from death if they are not also a Surgeon; or (2) operate on Dr. Zenkava. If exactly one Surgeon operates on Dr. Zenkava, and that Surgeon survives the night, the operation will be a success, and any further operation attempts by that Surgeon will do nothing (but will not interfere with other Surgeons operating). If two successful operation attempts are made on Dr. Zenkava, the Doctor wakes up and is able to identify the attacker; the Mafia must choose one of their living members to be publicly revealed as Mafia at the start of the following day.

The
Town
wins when all Mafia members are dead.
The
Mafia
win when they control 50% of living players, or if a Mafia member is ever the caretaker of the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
.
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:28 pm

Post by Isis »

This is scumsided right?? Like 2:7 mountainous with an alternate way for scum to win. There's X doctors that aren't named townies but that doesn't seem like enough?

That said the mechanics are very appealing aside from the balance.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:39 pm

Post by the worst »

In post 1, Isis wrote:This is scumsided right??
it's actually swingy enough that i can't tell if it's balanced or not but i absolutely adore it.
(egopost)
who's scum? i haven't read up yet but like, it's me
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:20 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

I thought about this a little more (and discussed it a bit with the duck) and I decided that there's pretty much no reason to leave the beetle unattended because it's way too easy for scum to steal it. That makes the gardener pretty much useless and gets into mostly sentry and surgeon WIFOM.

My proposed changes are:
- A Sentry defending the beetle prevents all steal attempts on it
- A Sentry stealing the beetle gets priority over a scum stealing the beetle
- Scum may kill the beetle-holder and steal from them in the same night
- Scum get some kind of factional roleblock-- I haven't worked out all the kinks on this, but they definitely need something to prevent town from just steamrolling them with a N1 sentry mass steal and then coordinated defense on the IC from the other sentries and the surgeons (and coordinated operation too in the surgeons' spare time).

Surgeons spamming heals on the beetle holder is also kinda strong. I thought about making them Hope Plus One-esque where their protection fails if two of them target a player, but that's too WIFOMy for my taste. Maybe just making them indecisive would be okay.
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:42 am

Post by Something_Smart »

2 Mafia Goons

7 Townies


All townies have an equal chance of being a
Gardener
, a
Sentry
, or a
Surgeon
.

The
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
begins the game with no caretaker. During any day in which it has no caretaker, players may-- but do not have to-- make a majority vote to place the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
in the care of a player. If a Mafia member ever becomes the caretaker of the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
, the Mafia win immediately. (This means that any player receiving it is confirmed as town, if the game continues.) If the caretaker of the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
dies, it will revert to having no caretaker.

During the night, the players may take the following actions:

Mafia Goon
-- each night, one Mafia member may carry out the factional kill on a player of their choice.
Mafia Goon
-- each night, each Mafia member may attempt to steal the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
. This will only succeed if the Beetle has no caretaker at the time the action resolves; steals resolve after kills, so this can happen if the caretaker dies that night. If successful, the Mafia member will come into possession of the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
, and thus win the game.
Mafia Goon
-- once during the game, one Mafia member may roleblock a player, preventing them from taking any actions that night. This may be done at the same time as the above actions.

Town Gardener
-- each night, the Gardener may choose one of two options: either (1) target a player and learn whether or not that player has attempted to steal the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
on this night or any previous night; or (2) target a player and make them permanently unable to possess the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
(if they are voted to receive it, instead nothing will happen, and if they attempt to steal it the attempt will automatically fail).

Town Sentry
-- once per game, the Sentry may choose one of two options: either (1) defend the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
, preventing anyone from stealing it that night; or (2) attempt to steal the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
, becoming its new caretaker if successful (if the Beetle has a caretaker, this is only successful if the caretaker dies that night). Sentries have a higher steal priority than Mafia members; if multiple players of the same alignment make an unblocked attempt to steal the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
in the same night, one will succeed at random.
Town Sentry
-- once per game, if the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
has a caretaker, the Sentry may choose to guard that caretaker. If the caretaker would die at night, the Sentry dies instead. If multiple Sentries guard a player who is attacked, one dies at random. If the Sentry guards a player who is also healed by a Surgeon, the Sentry will still die.

Town Surgeon
-- each night, the Surgeon may choose one of two options: either (1) heal a player that they did not heal in the previous night, protecting them from death if they are not also a Surgeon; or (2) operate on Dr. Zenkava. If exactly one Surgeon operates on Dr. Zenkava, and that Surgeon survives the night and is not roleblocked, the operation will be a success, and any further operation attempts by that Surgeon will do nothing (but will not interfere with other Surgeons operating). If two successful operation attempts are made on Dr. Zenkava, the Doctor wakes up and is able to identify the attacker; the Mafia must choose one of their living members to be publicly revealed as Mafia at the start of the following day.

The
Town
wins when all Mafia members are dead.
The
Mafia
win when they control 50% of living players, or if a Mafia member is ever the caretaker of the
Red-Horned Dung Beetle
.
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:58 am

Post by Isis »

Is the flavor supposed to imply that Dr. Zenkava investigations can only happen one time per game?

If they can happen twice per game they are OP

(they might be OP anyway)
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:26 am

Post by Something_Smart »

Once per game yes.

Might be OP, though scum can kill the surgeons, or RB them, or fakeclaim surgeon and claim to be RB'd. Think I should give scum a second RB shot?

The idea was that the surgeons probably can't claim to coordinate, because they can't be protected (aside from if a surgeon has the beetle).
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:58 am

Post by Isis »

In post 6, Something_Smart wrote:surgeons probably can't ... coordinate
this seems, mostly wrong? The town can make an unofficial majority vote between "All Surgeons rescue Dr. Zengava tonight" and "No Surgeons Rescue Dr. Zengava tonight" with equal participation from players of all roles, then have the surgeons abide by it, to reduce the risk of the undesirable outcome of a single Zenkava occuring all game. With 0 Surgeons it's just an exercise, with 1 you very slightly reduced the agency of your surgeon but he gets to operate again Night 2 to finish it, with 2 it's perfect, with 3 you waste one surgeon's action but that doesn't seem harmful enough to dissuade the strategy given that having 3 surgeons is unlikely. At 4 it's starting to look like a rand that was pretty hard for town to win anyway given the macho effect on the surgeons.
The surgeons don't need to actually out themselves to develop a coordinated strategy, and they can pick a strategy based on what they think the gamestate is like (if it seems like both scum are probably doing equally well or the game is an associative spiderweb then operating becomes really good)
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:07 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

Are you understanding the mechanics right? For an operation to be successful, there needs to be exactly one surgeon operating in a given night, and to wake the doctor two DIFFERENT surgeons need to get successful operations.
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:00 pm

Post by Isis »

It's actually one misreading that domino effects into the second one, but yeah my eyes glazed over exactly for being a superfluous word except when it's definitely not a superfluous word.

Not sure I can object to anything in the setup at this point.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:13 am

Post by Something_Smart »

Should the sentry be allowed to defend the beetle if they are the one who possesses it?

I think no.
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:14 am

Post by Something_Smart »

Meh, but then they can't do ANYTHING if they get the beetle. So I guess it's probably fine if they manage to get voted it without using their steal?
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:09 pm

Post by Isis »

hmmm
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:12 pm

Post by Isis »

I think it'd be cool for holding a beetle to suck for the sentries, first run of the setup. The caretaker process becomes more interesting
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:08 am

Post by the worst »

In post 13, Isis wrote:I think it'd be cool for holding a beetle to suck for the sentries, first run of the setup. The caretaker process becomes more interesting
I pretty much second this.
who's scum? i haven't read up yet but like, it's me
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:46 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

Yeah that seems fine.
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:52 am

Post by Taly »

literally if anyone misreads someone's role then their entire alignment is fucked

i love it
"Taly is going to be a hot mess all game and I am entertained" ~ Gammagooey
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"Taly I knew your slot was scum and I still struggled to find arguments to SR your play lol" ~Infinity 324
"Taly wins for the most fence-sitty reads in a game ever" ~Battle Mage
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:31 am

Post by schadd_ »

this is so dope
free darius mccollum
todays featured user: shaft.ed

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