[CHALLENGE] October Challenge

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
User avatar
Isis
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
User avatar
User avatar
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
Best in Class
Posts: 11219
Joined: April 6, 2020
Pronoun: she/her, not they
Location: Seattle

Post Post #50 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:09 am

Post by Isis »

In post 0, Something_Smart wrote:I'm pretty generous regarding what counts as a "power role"; it can be something negative utility like miller or beloved princess.
Primed Townie day 5 is a power role that makes you die after day 5. It probably isn't getting added to the Normal Queue anytime soon though.

That's the letter if the requirements, for the spirit, I think it's still okay, it creates conftown, but if you wanted to subsidize stuff that is right in the center of what the challenge is asking you probably wouldn't pick it.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
T-Bone
T-Bone
He/Him
A Cut Above
User avatar
User avatar
T-Bone
He/Him
A Cut Above
A Cut Above
Posts: 9041
Joined: February 18, 2011
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Shrug City
Contact:

Post Post #51 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:50 am

Post by T-Bone »

Yeah my setup is functionally giving a chosen player an innocent child role every day. That's how I decided to interpret power role here.
My Top 40 Alt Songs of the Year!

"Playing in a Newbie game doesn't count" ~ PenguinPower, Feb 2019
User avatar
Isis
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
User avatar
User avatar
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
Best in Class
Posts: 11219
Joined: April 6, 2020
Pronoun: she/her, not they
Location: Seattle

Post Post #52 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2020 3:36 pm

Post by Isis »

Isis>Icher>PookyTheMagicalBear>Kanna>T-Bone>TemporalLich>Hectic>ceejayvinoya>Not Known 15>JakeTheWolfie

Mine is ego etc.
Ircher's setup uses something I think maybe players would enjoy and looks roughly balanced Would like one of the opening posts to give a hint about how strategic voting might function since it's such a wall of text, but matchmaking problems and voting are necessarily complex I doubt it's unnecessarily complex
Pooky's is a small scum dense nightless setup and I want to believe in those, I so badly want a balanced Purgatory. I think the town flagbearer will generally function like an IC but it's like, slightly different from gray flag?
Kanna's setup feels like the best version of the "default" answer to the prompt
T-Bone's setup has a major balanced problem, but there's no question that it's balanceable and the core mechanic is a bit nifty, compared with stuff below seeming like various shades of unworkable to me.
TL's setup just seems like a closed normal with extra steps, maybe slightly slightly more pizazz than that, but mostly just a closed normal with extra steps, since RNG is the correct draft strategy.
Hectic's setup would probably play one of those other bizarre mechheavy games and would probably be okish? I think this is where the setups I wouldn't actually want to join starts.
ceejayvinoya's "when you get too many points you're actually VT again" conceit doesn't appeal to me and seems like it would be actively frustrating. Which would be a step down from "lol that was silly". I'm not sure if that's bad design rather than my preference though.
Not Known 15's setup artificially increases the number of days on evens, which is the opposite of how I design setups, I really prefer to see things go fast. That's most of what I dislike about it.
JakeTheWolfie's setup has like, a lot of cops, and it's not clear a good revision exists since there will likely be another best role remaining after that.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
PookyTheMagicalBear
PookyTheMagicalBear
Pooky got your back
User avatar
User avatar
PookyTheMagicalBear
Pooky got your back
Pooky got your back
Posts: 39952
Joined: August 17, 2003

Post Post #53 (ISO) » Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:52 pm

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

Feedback:



Spoiler:
Won’t you be my neighbor?
4-9 Nightless with neighbor drafting –
This is a cool setup – I like it and would play it – maybe consider giving the mafia a 1 shot day-kill

Darkness:
3-10 MT with lightbearer selected PRs.
PRs are kind of confusing – not sure how many PR uses town will get – feels like this might be a bit townsided as the scum can’t really remove TPRs?


The Council Has Spoken:
I like the concept but when do the council night actions have to be decided? Seems like it is easy for a mafia in the council to leak the info- what if a council member changes the actions at the last second to try to avoid that? Seems like it is susceptible to some night deadline shenanigans.

Fae of Wishes:
I love this faerie council concept – it seems a bit swingy in that if the mafia kill the townie that is favored by the fae the town basically loses all of their power? Am I reading that correctly? Maybe it would be fun to have the Faerie vote on who to become “favored by the fae” and not tie favoring to alignment but instead give it some other power? Would love to play this ^_^

Pick Your Player:
This is a cool concept. Is point passing done in real time? Do players know how many points they have at all times? I can see this being very breakable if a UTR collects all the points and then distributes them for optimal role distribution.

Changing Fate:
This is very wild, can’t wait to see what you come up with for the roles – the overall theme feels very fun to do. I played in Maria’s tarot card game and it was a lot of fun :3

Trick & Treats:
Wooden Pipe seems imbalanced – what would prevent the town from just giving everyone wooden pipes and chain investigating everyone?

Bazaar:

I like the concept but think there is too much power if its all available to bid on right away for scum to get to an early lead. Would be cool if there are multiple bidding phases with random things available at each phase so there is some “economy” to the game and it makes sense to save money etc. Would play this.

Won’t You Be My Lover:

This is even cooler than the previous Ircher setup – would play 100%

Primed for Ignition:

Not sure how balanced this is – seems like it really ties the mafia’s hands with the order of the nightkills.

Metagame:

Feels like too much power – can assign 2 per color and there would be a ton of power roles? Not sure how balanced that would be but would be fun to play :3.


Voting:


Hectic > Isis > Ircher > Pooky > Ceejay > Mizzy > Kanna > TLich > TBone > Not Known > Jake
Show
"I hope one day I can openly play as wolfy as Pooky and get zero pressure for it grumble grumble."
-MariaR


"I can't even look at the game anymore.
That evil teddy bear has got everyone twirling by his thumb.
It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."

-Norwee
User avatar
Isis
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
User avatar
User avatar
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
Best in Class
Posts: 11219
Joined: April 6, 2020
Pronoun: she/her, not they
Location: Seattle

Post Post #54 (ISO) » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:48 am

Post by Isis »

We had good lot of entries here, but only three ballots.
Spoiler:
Image

3 Ballot vote is sketchy, Pooky ranked the setups of both other users to submit ballots above his own, so his preference between the two decided the vote.
For who "should" win I could abstain which would cause Ircher's really good setup to win or a "nobody who submitted a ballot amongst the very few people who did ballots can win" rule would uniquely grant Kanna the win, if I interpret her having uniquely the most pairwise wins correctly (Isis 10, Ircher 9, Pooky 7, Kanna also 7, everyone else 7 or fewer).
Hot potatoing the win probably isn't worth the effort and communication trials and such, though. I'll think of a challenge constraint in the next day or so.

I think the sweet spot would be, if we could please get 5 ballots next time.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
PookyTheMagicalBear
PookyTheMagicalBear
Pooky got your back
User avatar
User avatar
PookyTheMagicalBear
Pooky got your back
Pooky got your back
Posts: 39952
Joined: August 17, 2003

Post Post #55 (ISO) » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:55 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

we could just murder the people who submit setups and don't submit ballots

I think that would be the most equitable solution Isis.
Show
"I hope one day I can openly play as wolfy as Pooky and get zero pressure for it grumble grumble."
-MariaR


"I can't even look at the game anymore.
That evil teddy bear has got everyone twirling by his thumb.
It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."

-Norwee
User avatar
T-Bone
T-Bone
He/Him
A Cut Above
User avatar
User avatar
T-Bone
He/Him
A Cut Above
A Cut Above
Posts: 9041
Joined: February 18, 2011
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Shrug City
Contact:

Post Post #56 (ISO) » Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:03 am

Post by T-Bone »

Late votes

Tricks And Treats
Pick Your Player
The Coucil Has Spoken
Primed For Ignition
Highly Metagame
Flagbearer Nightless
Won't You Be My Neighbor/Won't You Be My Lover
Darkness
Bazaar
Changing Fate
Fae of Wishes
My Top 40 Alt Songs of the Year!

"Playing in a Newbie game doesn't count" ~ PenguinPower, Feb 2019
User avatar
Mizzytastic
Mizzytastic
they/them
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Mizzytastic
they/them
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1442
Joined: April 26, 2016
Pronoun: they/them
Location: Stonehenge

Post Post #57 (ISO) » Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:54 am

Post by Mizzytastic »

I thought it was up to the challenge setter, not a vote, sorry. Though I never finished mine so maybe I don't count anyway
User avatar
T-Bone
T-Bone
He/Him
A Cut Above
User avatar
User avatar
T-Bone
He/Him
A Cut Above
A Cut Above
Posts: 9041
Joined: February 18, 2011
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Shrug City
Contact:

Post Post #58 (ISO) » Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:37 am

Post by T-Bone »

Speaking as the Open Listmod, I'd like to specifically see threads created for Tricks an Treats, Pick Your Player, and The Council...but I'd encourage anyone who wants to workshop their ideas to create threads for it.
My Top 40 Alt Songs of the Year!

"Playing in a Newbie game doesn't count" ~ PenguinPower, Feb 2019
User avatar
TemporalLich
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
User avatar
User avatar
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
Grand Scheme
Posts: 5721
Joined: January 30, 2019
Location: A Lost Timeline

Post Post #59 (ISO) » Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:53 am

Post by TemporalLich »

I missed the vote window :(
time will end
User avatar
Kanna
Kanna
she/her
Innocent Child
User avatar
User avatar
Kanna
she/her
Innocent Child
Innocent Child
Posts: 2219
Joined: November 15, 2019
Pronoun: she/her

Post Post #60 (ISO) » Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:48 am

Post by Kanna »

i'll look through the entries sometime today, but it's okay if people don't want to wait/want to close up voting before then. pooky please no murder D:
spirited away thanks for the good memories

"My heart is shaped like a harp with strings that go wiggle wiggle when someone is acting like an earnest bucketheaded townie incapable of wrong" ~ Isis
User avatar
Isis
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
User avatar
User avatar
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
Best in Class
Posts: 11219
Joined: April 6, 2020
Pronoun: she/her, not they
Location: Seattle

Post Post #61 (ISO) » Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:19 pm

Post by Isis »

4 ballots would usually tie so we need 5
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
Jake The Wolfie
Jake The Wolfie
he/they
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Jake The Wolfie
he/they
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3577
Joined: July 13, 2019
Pronoun: he/they
Location: Floorda

Post Post #62 (ISO) » Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:50 pm

Post by Jake The Wolfie »

:Rank everyone by the exact opposite of how well they are doing before my vote, except for mine, which gets first place:
User avatar
Kanna
Kanna
she/her
Innocent Child
User avatar
User avatar
Kanna
she/her
Innocent Child
Innocent Child
Posts: 2219
Joined: November 15, 2019
Pronoun: she/her

Post Post #63 (ISO) » Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:13 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 10, Isis wrote:
Fae of Wishes
11 Townies

3 Mafia

During day 1, players may first/second/nth a motion to invite a player from outside the game to become a faerie. The moderator will contact users who are "6thed" and confirm up to three acceptances in the thread. Faeries win with the town.
Night 1, there is no factional nightkill and a random
Townie
becomes
Favoured by the Fae
. The following things are true about you if you are
Favoured by the Fae
for as long as you are
Favoured by the Fae
:
  • You are eliminationproof
  • You have daytalk and nighttalk in the Fae PT, where all three faeries also have daytalk and nighttalk
  • You have a night action that will cause you to no longer be
    Favoured by the Fae
    and will cause your target to become
    Favoured by the Fae
    . It will fail if the target is mafia or is being visited by mafia.
The mafia are multiacting and have a factional roleblock. Faeries have no activity requirement and won't be replaced.
i'm a bit confused about this. if the night action fails, is it gone forever?

ceejay > jake the wolfie > ircher > pooky > t-bone > hectic > temporal lich > not known 15

isis is a bit of a ? at the moment because i think i'm misunderstanding the key part of the setup
spirited away thanks for the good memories

"My heart is shaped like a harp with strings that go wiggle wiggle when someone is acting like an earnest bucketheaded townie incapable of wrong" ~ Isis
User avatar
Isis
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
User avatar
User avatar
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
Best in Class
Posts: 11219
Joined: April 6, 2020
Pronoun: she/her, not they
Location: Seattle

Post Post #64 (ISO) » Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:25 pm

Post by Isis »

both the loss of the Favour and the gaining of the favor are effects of the night action, so if it fails in any of the three ways it can fail (roleblock, tried to pass to the NK target, tried to pass to the roleblock target), the player who has the favour retains it.

It's gone forever if the holder is both roleblocked and shot, though
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
Kanna
Kanna
she/her
Innocent Child
User avatar
User avatar
Kanna
she/her
Innocent Child
Innocent Child
Posts: 2219
Joined: November 15, 2019
Pronoun: she/her

Post Post #65 (ISO) » Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:38 pm

Post by Kanna »

i see! maybe ceejay=isis > jake the wolfie > ircher > pooky > t-bone > hectic > temporal lich > not known 15 if i can do that then
spirited away thanks for the good memories

"My heart is shaped like a harp with strings that go wiggle wiggle when someone is acting like an earnest bucketheaded townie incapable of wrong" ~ Isis
User avatar
Isis
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
User avatar
User avatar
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
Best in Class
Posts: 11219
Joined: April 6, 2020
Pronoun: she/her, not they
Location: Seattle

Post Post #66 (ISO) » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:27 am

Post by Isis »

"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
Isis
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
User avatar
User avatar
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
Best in Class
Posts: 11219
Joined: April 6, 2020
Pronoun: she/her, not they
Location: Seattle

Post Post #67 (ISO) » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:36 am

Post by Isis »

here's the text if you want to look at the results again or check for error:
Spoiler:
All Candidates As Entered:
1, Ircher
2, Not Known
3, Kanna
4, Isis
5, ceejayvinoya
6, PookyTheMagicalBear
7, Jake the Wolfie
8, Hectic
9, TBone
10, TemporalLich
All Votes as Entered:
1:1>10>3>5>4>7=8>2>6>9
1:4>1>6>3>9>10>8>5>2>7
1:8>4>1>6>5>3>10>9>2>7
1:7>5>3>9>10>6>1>2>8>4
1:5=4>7>1>6>9>8>10>2


It says I win again, although I've dropped from an outright Concordet win to a "Concordet tiebreaker", which came with an explanation I don't quite understand!
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
PookyTheMagicalBear
PookyTheMagicalBear
Pooky got your back
User avatar
User avatar
PookyTheMagicalBear
Pooky got your back
Pooky got your back
Posts: 39952
Joined: August 17, 2003

Post Post #68 (ISO) » Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:47 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

You always seem to win
Show
"I hope one day I can openly play as wolfy as Pooky and get zero pressure for it grumble grumble."
-MariaR


"I can't even look at the game anymore.
That evil teddy bear has got everyone twirling by his thumb.
It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."

-Norwee
Post Reply

Return to “Open Setup Discussion”