[MECHANIC] Scummer's Dilemma

[Mizzytastic]

This is an idea for an alternate elimination mechanic inspired by the prisoners dilemma, and my initial musings on what sort of setup it might go in.

SCUMMERS DILEMMA

During the day players will choose by plurality (ties broken by age of wagon) two players to enter the dilemma room. These two players will by given a PT and a short deadline, and not be allowed to communicate with the rest of the game (main thread, mafia PT, etc). Each player will privately choose to

Trust

or

Distrust

the other. Results are determined as below

SvS or TvT

Trust + Trust

: Both players live

Distrust + Trust

: The player who

Trust

ed dies

Distrust + Distrust

: Both players die

SvT

Trust + Trust

: The town player dies OR Both players live, as chosen by the Scum

Distrust + Trust

: The player who

Trust

ed dies

Distrust + Distrust

: Both players die

Initially I had the SvT both trust being the town always dies, but I incorporated the choice because it stops a breaking strategy at some game sizes of Town always trusts, and just going through combinations until someone dies, then put town in with the survivor and Distrust.

I am also concerned that it might be optimal for town to just always Distrust, because a Distrusting town is the only way to reliably get rid of Scum, but I don't know how to go about the maths to check for that.

I was considering this working in a nightless format. I feel like the sometimes two town dies is gonna come up way more often than the sometimes two town Trust each other which could lead to a sometimes extra kill that would average out to mafia sometimes getting an extra kill that they didn't get full say over and might allow for different optimal game sizes. I also feel like the dilemma PT and chance for manipulation would appeal to people who enjoy dayplay/nightless.

If there are night actions they could take place in a night following the dilemma, or be submitted simultaneously with the trust fall, with people locked in the dilemma room unable to use abilities.

Some on theme roles I had considered for a setup:

• Lie Detector
  : Your first time in the dilemma you will be informed of your opponents choice before picking your own. I could also see this working with a town + scum pair with this ability, who if their first time in the arena is against each other instead learn that they are in the pair
  
• Trust Cop
  : Once per game you can learn the players choices in the dilemma
  
• COOL_NAME
  : Once per game you can force the result of the dilemma. If only one player dies, they both die instead. (not got a cool name idea for this yet)

I also feel like having an innocent child might be useful for situations where to balance town just sometimes need a conf town to put in with scum, if this did end up being a nightless format.


I'd love to hear any thoughts, or even see some setup ideas. I'm definitely gonna develop this into a setup once I feel more comfy on the risks/nuances involved.

[Isis]

Would prefer you didn't use the "trust fall" namespace because that's already the name of a setup that's pretty prominent onsite right now.

This seems like interesting design space, could be fleshed out into something good.

I recommend reading the closed "Saw mafia", it used mechanics reminiscent of this in the nightkills and I think would just be generically good brainstorm food here.

[Mizzytastic]

Ahh, sorry, I didn't know that. Makes sense though, I obviously think it's a cool name

[Isis]

New name is cool too.

I know some people cringe about the use of mechanics that work probabilistically, but I think they might have some merit here.

[Mizzytastic]

Where? Just having something like an 80/20 split on results for options in the dilemma (does go with the prisoners dilemma feel). Just having whether or not scum kill town if they both trust be randomised?

Or are you thinking more that you need probabalistic stuff along with this mechanic to avoid it being too easy to solve what happened in the dilemma room?

Editted to add: I'm not inherently opposed to probabilistic mechanics, my mean concern with them is that a game with them has to be one you want to play again after the dice screw you.

[Isis]

The last bit. It's possible I haven't thought-exercised through it enough and everything is fine as-is on that front.

[Kerset]

During day town may pick two players. Chosen player may decide to kill other chosen player.
Seems practically the same. Distrust always kills other player anyway.

[Mizzytastic]

Yeah, I guess that simplification works. A lot of what I did was for flavour I guess.

[Kerset]

You can always consider 3p room to add more complex scenarios