[SETUP] Risk and Reward

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[SETUP] Risk and Reward

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:15 pm

Post by Gypyx »

2 Cultists

1 Odd-Night Private Investigator
10 Vanilla Townies


The Cult has a factional recruitement ability (not tied to a specific player)
The Cult may give up thier factional recruitement to get a nightkill, this is permanent and they won't be able to go back to recruiting townies
If 2 Cultists are Executed, the town wins
If the Private investigator gets recruited, another townie will become the private investigator


I had thoughts about making a flag-like setup with giving the scum a choice in the playstyle they could take, does this look like a playable / balanced / fun setup?
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:21 pm

Post by Jake The Wolfie »

Why would the Cult ever convert here?
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:30 pm

Post by Gypyx »

My assumption is that converting is a very powerful ability, so it has advantages, but you think the downsides outbalances them?
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:53 pm

Post by Jake The Wolfie »

The cult converts once, then start killing.

Specifically hunt for the PI.

Also, if the cult gets killed once early, then they essentially lose.
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:58 pm

Post by Gypyx »

True, things can go really bad / good for cult easily, but i didn't really find a way to make things consistent
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:22 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

Why would the Cult ever kill here?
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:29 pm

Post by Gypyx »

In post 1, Jake The Wolfie wrote:Why would the Cult ever convert here?
In post 5, Something_Smart wrote:Why would the Cult ever kill here?
Make your mind guys lmao
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:33 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

I mean cults are busted. After two wrong executions they will already reach 7:4, which combined with the ability to pick a good recruit target making reads from previous days essentially meaningless will make it almost impossible for town to hit cult.
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:41 pm

Post by Gypyx »

The PI kinda balances that imo
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:43 pm

Post by Isis »

Her Name Is Thaumiel has the similar dynamic of a flag based cult setup, but it sets the loss condition at one execution, which is much more reasonable given how powerful cults are.

Thaumiel gets pulled from queue even though cultd3 fires and I think it's a way worse setup and I spend a lot of time crying about it
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:45 pm

Post by Isis »

I don't know how balanced the setup is but I like cult setups that offset the inherent frustrations of cult better than this.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:59 pm

Post by Gypyx »

I see, well thanks for the criticism
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:04 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

I can't find Thaumiel anywhere, can you link the setup?

I would suspect that it's because Thaumiel is more balanced which means mega nerfing the cult and people think that isn't fun. (Because the kind of person who'd join a cult game isn't exactly looking for balance.)
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:06 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

In post 11, Gypyx wrote:I see, well thanks for the criticism
No problem. The first rule of cult games is that the cult is more broken than you think it is. At the very minimum, you probably want to put a limit on recruits, just because having 4/11 alive players be scum makes executing scum incredibly difficult.
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:22 pm

Post by Jake The Wolfie »

1 convert = 2 kills

Because you not only nullify a player's vote, but you gain a vote to nullify as well.
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:19 pm

Post by Kerset »

11 v 2 | 11 v 2 | 11 v 2
9 v 3 | 9 v 3 | 9 v 3
7 v 4 | 8 v 3 | 7 v 3
5 v 5 | 6 v 4 | 5 v 3
| 4 v 5 | 3 v 3
Its better to have 1 voted out cultist but stay full-recruit rather then in n2+ nighkills with no casualties.

You either fool town completely and win on d3 or you can surrender as cult. There is no point in delaying this game with nightkills in this lose condition, you need to rush game as much as possible.
giv me pagetop :(
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:34 pm

Post by Isis »

In post 12, Something_Smart wrote:I can't find Thaumiel anywhere, can you link the setup?

I would suspect that it's because Thaumiel is more balanced which means mega nerfing the cult and people think that isn't fun. (Because the kind of person who'd join a cult game isn't exactly looking for balance.)
viewtopic.php?p=11458261#p11458261
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:35 pm

Post by Kerset »

Maybe disable the lose condition once nightkill is being used?
giv me pagetop :(
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:15 pm

Post by Gypyx »

Hmmm, that's a good solution, but i'm afraid that cult become too powerful compared to town, like, assuming cult manages to avoif exes, one recruit and then nightkill become 9 v 3 w Odd-Night cop, pretty scumsided
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