[Setup] Dr. Hideyoshi

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[Setup] Dr. Hideyoshi

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:41 pm

Post by Isis »

Dr. Hideyoshi's cloneDr. Hideyoshi has been a respectable leader in the genetics lab for years, but something has gone wrong.

1
Mafia Clone of Dr. Hideyoshi

1
Mafia Clone Scientist

1
Town Dr. Hideyoshi

3
Town Scientist

From the start of the game, the mod reveals which players look like Dr. Hideyoshi.
There is only night zero. During Night zero, the mafia chooses a town player to be
Adrenaline-Tweaked
, and a Town Scientist to be
Creator of Dr. Hideyoshi's Clone
. They must be different. Those town players are not informed.
  • If someone who looks like Dr. Hideyoshi is the very first elimination, the
    Creator of Dr. Hideyoshi's Clone
    becomes remorseful and eliminates themselves.
  • If the Mafia Clone Scientist is the very first elimination, the most seditious scientist doesn't get to do enough whispering, and everyone realizes having two Dr. Hideyoshis can just be a chill thing actually and town wins.
  • If a Town Scientist is the very first elimination, the
    Adrenaline-Tweaked
    player gains Day 2 Vengeful. However, if the
    Adrenaline-Tweaked
    player is themselves the player who was the very first elimination, the
    Creator of Dr. Hideyoshi's Clone
    gains Day 2 Vengeful instead. The player is not informed that they have gained Vengeful.


The game uses a parity win condition (checked after venges resolve).
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:23 pm

Post by Kerset »

I don't understand those mechanics. Can you make unflavored version?
giv me pagetop :(
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:04 am

Post by Isis »

1 Mafia Day 1 Flagbearer

1 Mafia Flavored Day 1 Special Simple Vengeful

3 Vanilla Townie

1 Town Flavored townie

Nightless.

The moderator posts at the beginning of day one which two players are Flavored, in a random order.

The Mafia Flavored's Vengeful ability triggers when any Flavored player is eliminated day 1, not just the Mafia Flavored. The Mafia Flavored always dies while performing their vengekill.

If a Vanilla Townie is eliminated day one, a random vanilla townie gains Day 2 Vengeful, and the moderator posts that player's name in the scum PT


I think that's equivalent, after a little stretching on what kinds of things Simple can modify.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:15 am

Post by Kerset »

At the beginning town is informed about 2 players. They are both flavored and "The Mafia Flavored's Vengeful ability triggers when any Flavored player is eliminated day 1. The Mafia Flavored always dies while performing their vengekill.".
So on day 1 town can just vote one of them for guaranteed mafia death?
giv me pagetop :(
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:27 am

Post by Isis »

Yes. But it's not free because the opportunity for a flagbearer win is permanently sacrificed.

The EV math was tricky but I think I got it right on both things being fair
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:06 pm

Post by Mizzytastic »

Does the townie know they have become a day 2 vengeful or just the mafia?
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:31 am

Post by JacksonVirgo »

I'm going to use the unflavored version, you should probably re-theme or reword the themed one because it confused the literal shizbags outta me and it seems Kerset as well.

I am not a big fan of random elements, if there's any way to remove the randomness that would be neat. One idea would be to have a pre-game vote on the order or something but that's overcomplicating it imo.

The flagbearer with a vengeful buddy is pretty decent and balanced as far as I know. What's the point of the D2 town vengeful thing? I don't really see the point outside of Town not being certain that it's either a win or a venge kill the following night.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:31 am

Post by JacksonVirgo »

In post 5, Mizzytastic wrote:Does the townie know they have become a day 2 vengeful or just the mafia?
I would assume they would be aware?
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:44 am

Post by Mizzytastic »

I would normally assume that too, but it depends how you want that day 2 to play out.

If the vengeful knows they can claim and turn the game into two 1v1s and I'm not sure whether that or not claiming is optimal. You can't counterclaim cos the vengeful shoots you if they get elimed.

If they don't know it plays up the social side because then the mafia have 3 out of 5 they don't want to elim. Knowing and not claiming is similar but then the vengeful can look out for people avoiding them specifically.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:39 am

Post by Hectic »

Being flavoured in this game would be pretty fun. I think a 1v1 from the start of the game would be a great talking point and day 1 would play out in a pretty unique way. Everyone should be talking about the two so you're bound to get good info/associations as well.

I think you probably go for the firefighter/resident route depending on if there's a scummy resident about, or if one of the firefighters is scummier than the other I guess. They seem pretty balanced going by random chance.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:16 am

Post by Isis »

The random vengeful balances the EV of choosing to eliminate firefighters versus choosing to eliminate residents first. Without the vengeful, eliminating residents would be a bad strategy that's inferior by at least 10% EV. If all 3 residents got the vengeful instead of just one, it would swing the opposite way by at least 10% EV. With just one it's balanced.

It doesn't need to be random. The mafia could choose based on a list. That is probably better it creates something that can be read.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:07 am

Post by Isis »

The vengeful has to be unaware also due to the Named Townie effect Mizzy is referencing
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:05 am

Post by Isis »

Dr. Hideyoshi's cloneDr. Hideyoshi has been a respectable leader in the genetics lab for years, but something has gone wrong.

1
Mafia Clone of Dr. Hideyoshi

1
Mafia Clone Scientist

1
Town Dr. Hideyoshi

3
Town Scientist

From the start of the game, the mod reveals which players look like Dr. Hideyoshi.
There is only night zero. During Night zero, the mafia chooses a town player to be Adrenaline-Tweaked, and a Town Scientist to be Creator of Dr. Hideyoshi's Clone. They must be different. Those town players are not informed.
  • If someone who looks like Dr. Hideyoshi is the very first elimination, the Creator of Dr. Hideyoshi's Clone swallows arsenic in a fit of guilt.
  • If the Mafia Clone Scientist is the very first elimination, the most seditious scientist doesn't get to do enough whispering, and everyone realizes having two Dr. Hideyoshi's can just be a chill thing actually and town wins.
  • If a Town Scientist is the very first elimination, the Adrenaline-Tweaked player gains Day 2 Vengeful. However, if the Adrenaline-Tweaked player is themselves the player who was the very first elimination, the Creator of Dr. Hideyoshi's Clone gains Day 2 Vengeful instead.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:14 am

Post by Mizzytastic »

In post 12, Isis wrote:... and everyone realizes having two Dr. Hideyoshi's can just be a chill thing actually and town wins.
This bit of flavour entertained me greatly.
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:07 pm

Post by JacksonVirgo »

Yeah that flavour is really good, I think this setup is actually pretty balanced.
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:27 pm

Post by Isis »

Criticizing the flavour was good actionable input
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:35 pm

Post by Isis »

Spoiler: previous revision
1 Looting Resident

1 Looting Firefighter

3 Good Resident

1 Good Firefighter

Nightless.

Everyone is in a burning mansion, with both fenceworthy antiques and human lives worth saving. Vote players out of the building!

Firefighters have an underlined name in votecounts.
Day 1, each elimination has a special effect:
  • Looting Resident : The resident hasn't disposed of their arson implements yet, allowing everyone to know which fire extinguishing methods to use. The fire is quenched and the looters lose immediately!
  • Looting Firefighter: The Looting Firefighter must pretend they were yelling "where is it?" because they were trying to find a Good Resident. The firefighter selects a Good Resident to carry out to the ambulance and hospital.
  • Good Firefighter: The Looting Firefighter is too cowardly to be fighting the fire alone, and as an excuse selects a Good Resident to carry out to the ambulance and hospital.
  • Good Resident: A random good good resident realizes residents only seem to leave the building without the firefighters' help, and gains Vengeful for one phase to take matters into their own hands. The firefighters are informed who this is.


If I didn't miscalculate, I'm getting an EV of 0.5 for the strategy "start with firefighters" and an EV of 0.5167 for the strategy "start with Residents".

I might want to reflavor this.

Is this fun?
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:27 pm

Post by Jake The Wolfie »

I'd like to make ma new topic just to state my favorite flavor.
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:54 pm

Post by Isis »

Huh?
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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