November-December Challenge

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
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November-December Challenge

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:24 pm

Post by Isis »

It's a little late, so let's do another two monther?

Previous Challenge

This month's challenge: Design a setup that indefinitely has kills, then becomes indefinitely nightless, OR a setup that is indefinitely nightless, but then indefinitely has kills. "Indefinitely nightless" means that an uninformed majority elimination is directly followed by another uninformed majority elimination, "indefinitely has kills" means each uninformed majority elimination is followed by one or several scum controlled kills or undemocratic kills. The "indefinitely" emphasizes that discretionary one shot effects don't count, for example, basing a game around the Alien faction doesn't work because it's unclear when the aliens will choose to use their limited nightkill. "Kills" means nightkills by default, but I'll also allow for it to mean dayvigs in an EBONAHAResque setup. There must be at least two phases after the shift. Before the shift, you would need at least 2 phases of eliminations to generate a first part of the game that was nightless, but you only need one day followed by one night if you want to generate a first part of the game that had kills.
If you manage to switch back multiple times, that's allowed, but that's obviously hard.

Setups that would qualify are:

-Fusion Mafia
-One Kill Mountainous, if the kill is forced to be used night one.
as it should be

-FakeGod Dance : although it's not nightkill heavy, you can draw a line after intermission and identify that at least 2 more phases of mafia will be played, but the mafia have no more factional elimination for the rest of the game.
-Fae of Wishes : It's a technicality, yes, but challenge requirements are intended to spark creativity, not forbid many designs for purity so it'd still be allowed (whether it'd be likely as a response to the prompt, eh)
-Safe to Split Push, which is a setup I didn't even use as a final entry to a contest but if you remember it before I feel less lazy and link it tomorrow, you earn so many stickers.

Wouldn't qualify:
-Purgatory: while the game can get into judgment day lock, judgment day is a purely town controlled exercise. If you get in on the EBONAHAR-style exemption, scum need to control about as much dayvigging as town (which is generally scumsided, which is why it matches the spirit of the challenge, a shift in tone on how much each faction can control the game)
-Nightless Vanilla: never has nightkills
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:08 pm

Post by Jake The Wolfie »

What does "Indefinitely has Kills" mean?
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:14 pm

Post by MURDERCAT »

I will do this and even vote at the end
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:26 pm

Post by Akarin »

I like stickers!
In post 88, popsofctown wrote:
Safe to Split Push mafia

10
Vanilla Townies
3
Mafia Goons
1 Shared power

This game autojanitors all flips and has a factional NK.
Any day starting with day 2, the town may collectively decide to activate their "Split Push" power. On activation, if there are 3 Mafia Goons alive, the town immediately loses. If there are 1 or 2 Mafia Goons alive, instead all deceased players flip, and for the rest of the game no flips are janitored and the game is nightless.
Also for reference:
In post 27, singletonking wrote:Let's try something fun

Fusion Mafia3 Mafia
10 Townies

Days and Nights are normal until the lynch of the first Mafia Goon. That Night, the Mafia must pair all the players up into lovers, and must pair themselves together.The lovers are announced, each get a PT, and the game becomes Nightless for the rest of the game.


EV is 47.23%
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:31 pm

Post by TemporalLich »

Would this be a valid challenge setup?

Demons and the Dark Angel
12 players


1 Dark Angel

3 Demons (Mafia)

8 Light Angels (Town)


The Demons don't have a factional kill until the Dark Angel is removed from the game. They are able to secretly declare a Dark Angel as a 1-shot factional Night action so this setup is never truly Nightless.

The Dark Angel wins if they survive or are eliminated but the Demons win. The Dark Angel loses and is removed from the game if they are correctly declared to be the Dark Angel, or if the Dark Angel is eliminated with the Light Angels winning.

The Town, in addition to voting for eliminations as normal, may vote (ideally with HEAL: tags) to publically declare a Dark Angel. The Town may only publically declare a Dark Angel once in the game. If the Town declares incorrectly, the declared player's alignment will be confirmed by the moderator. If the Town correctly declares that the Dark Angel is the Dark Angel, the game instantly ends in a Light Angel win, with the Demons and Dark Angel losing.

The Demons may secretly declare that the Dark Angel is the Dark Angel once in the game. If the Demons correctly declare the Dark Angel, the Dark Angel is removed from the game and the Demons gain a 1-shot factional daykill. If the Demons declare incorrectly, the declared player's alignment will be posted in the Demon PT.

The Demons have access to a PT with daytalk.


This is a different setup based on the lore of the Dark Angel being extremely powerful but wanting to stay secret.
time will end
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:30 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

Ego.
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:29 pm

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

Odd Times
15 players



4 Mafia Goons

11 Vanilla Townies



Mafia may only night-kill if there are an odd number of Mafia Players Alive
Last edited by PookyTheMagicalBear on Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:53 am

Post by Gypyx »

Ok so, idk if this really counts as mafia but i find the idea pretty interesting, i think it's close to an already existing setup?

help idk how to name setup
2 Lover Survivors

2 Mafia

8 Town


The town wins if they execute a survivor, the mafia wins if they nightkill a survivor, the survivors win if they survive

Both the survivors and the mafia have a PT
The Mafia members are publically revealed D1, they may not be exed

The first 3 phases are day phases, at the end of those, the survivors must chose one of them to exit the game, after that night 3, day 4, and night 4 takes place, if the last survivor is alive at the end of it survivors win
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:38 am

Post by Isis »

Post 4 counts. I'm guess post 6 technically counts but it's just 11:4 double day

Gypyx's setup is mafia, because the Survivors are an informed minority, even though the mafia isn't. It's sufficiently in the spirit of the challenge, to me.

I'm pretty sure Akarin wasn't forum active when those open setups were posted so she is pretty covered in stickers. For the record, Fusion Mafia was actually run once (town won)
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:49 am

Post by Jake The Wolfie »

Isis, what does "Indefinitely has nightkills" mean?
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:02 am

Post by Isis »

I'm gonna reword the OP cause I'm not sure >_<
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:13 am

Post by Isis »

Ok, I think that's more defined.
I'm still not positive whether Pooky's should count, I encourage him to consider doing a new submission in any event.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:36 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

I've never heard of double day b4 :3
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:38 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

I read double day and I don't see how my setup is like double day? :3
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:55 am

Post by Isis »

I'm bad at math.. it's actually just two eliminations, followed by nightkills and eliminations in alternation, right?

It definitely fits the challenge requirements, actually. I feel confident it's supremely scumsided. At 3:12 it's still scumsided but maybe runnably scumsided. 4:11 is definitely insanity-level scumsided.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:12 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

it's 4:11 but scum don't get to nightkill until we hit a scum.

I actually played a game run by mith where it was 4:11 but the scum lost their nightkill if we hit a scum and that wasn't so bad :3
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:19 am

Post by MURDERCAT »

Delayed Vengeful
12 VT

3 Mafia Goon

This game starts nightless.
On day 4, every player gains vengeful.
Starting with night 4, mafia has a factional night kill.


According to simulations, EV is 44% if mafia is smart enough to not night kill the day before elo.
Last edited by MURDERCAT on Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:24 am

Post by Isis »

In post 15, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:it's 4:11 but scum don't get to nightkill until we hit a scum.

I actually played a game run by mith where it was 4:11 but the scum lost their nightkill if we hit a scum and that wasn't so bad :3
For some reason I read "they" as "all players in the game"

I am not sure why

Ok, after thinking about it, the reason why is that "started the night" is a counterintuitive clarification. It might be slightly more readable if you removed it.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:27 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

oh lol :3

is my setup still super scum-sided then? :P
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:29 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

ok how about this edit?
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"I hope one day I can openly play as wolfy as Pooky and get zero pressure for it grumble grumble."
-MariaR


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That evil teddy bear has got everyone twirling by his thumb.
It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."

-Norwee
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:04 pm

Post by Isis »

It's definitely a scum sided setup but I hate town enough to tolerate it.
Could make it a 4:13. With mountainous adding townies is a somewhat futile effort to balance the game but when the game is at least partly nightless it could be effective.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:30 am

Post by Akarin »

Shouldn't this thread be stickied?


Also, how much can we just workshop potentially completely unbalanced stuff in this thread? I have an idea but feels like it's nowhere near ready or thought out enough at this point. Should I just post it anyway or should I keep overthinking it in the shower every day until it feels better in my head.
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:31 am

Post by Isis »

you should do all of these things
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:00 am

Post by Akarin »

Really unsure of the balance of this right now. Or if it's actually fun.

I am Spartacus—Provisional
3 Roman Goons

1 Rebel Neapolitan 1-shot Gladiator
1 Rebel Vanilla Cop 1-shot Gladiator
3 Rebel 1-shot Gladiators
5 Vanilla Rebels


Romans have a 1-shot factional Gladiate

The game starts Nightless.
During the Nightless phase, when someone is being voted for by a majority of players, that player is removed from the game but the player's role
does not flip
.

When
at least
1 Roman and 1 Rebel player have been removed from the game, the game moves to Night.
From here on the game continues in the standard Day-Night cycle, players eliminated by vote flip as normal and the Romans have a factional Night Kill.
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:44 am

Post by Isis »

Would you consider retroactively flipping the players during N1, people usually like flipz.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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