November-December Challenge

[Akarin]

That goes a bit against one of the core ideas though. I was considering the lack of flip a sort of catchup mechanic.

If 1 scum gets a Thumbs Down in the first 2 kills, their fake claim adds some confusion to the Town mass claim that the other scum can exploit.
If Town screws up and kills 3 or more players, they can be reasonably sure that the last to die was scum and the first X were town, making things harder for scum.
If Scum are really unlucky and like 2 scum get gladiated by towny players early on, the first Town to die looks potentially like scum and gives the final scum a better chance to win that long-shot solo victory.

[Akarin]

So like this catchup thing was my original idea. Then I realized there was no real need for deadlines on the first phase, but I wanted there to be reasons to do something, hence the gladiators. Eventually

someone

will gladiate someone else if the game stalls and everyone can make a simple A or B choice.

The Neap and Vanilla cop each detect lying claims in one half of the town, so if one dies scum are more free to claim in that part, but that can be a fun amount of WiFoM if it's a bit unclear what role the dead town had.

I realized the slave rebellion theme works kind of neat with this because once they've managed to kill one of the Romans, they break out and then get picked off at night while voting out infiltrators during the day.

btw, would it be too tasteless to use "crucified" as the word for Elimination in this setup?

[Isis]

Yeahhhhh I dunno about that.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Twilight Mafia

3

Mafia Goons

11

Vanilla Townies

The game starts nightless.
There are 200 hours until twilight, when no more executions can be made.
The clock is paused once an execution has been made, and will unpause once the mod posts the death scene.
Once it is past twilight, the game becomes indefinitely dayless.

During the day phase, the players, in addition to voting players for execution, may vote up to 3 players to become a chancellor.
Once twilight has passed, whichever 3 players have the most votes will become a chancellor.
All chancellors will, after twilight, become a non-multitasking vigilante/doctor combination.
Once all kills are submitted, the mod will post a death scene showing who has died, and the next night will begin immediately after.

If all living chancellors are mafia, the game will end as it would be impossible for the town to win.

[Gypyx]

town has an unlimited stall option if they pick the chancelors correctly, which would be quite unfortunate

also, having absoluetly nothing to do once we reach night phase is oof

[Jake The Wolfie]

town has an unlimited stall option if they pick the chancelors correctly, which would be quite unfortunate

What do you mean by this?

also, having absoluetly nothing to do once we reach night phase is oof

I'll revise something for this.

[Gypyx]

well, the chancelors just have to heal each other forever

if we got 3 town chancelors, and a scum is exed, town can even guarantee the win

[Jake The Wolfie]

if we got 3 town chancelors, and a scum is exed, town can even guarantee the win

If.

[Gypyx]

Pretty sure it isn't that hard to get the 3 top townreads as town

[Jake The Wolfie]

Pretty sure it isn't that hard to get the 3 top townreads as town

It is effectively a mountainous setup, something which the town often struggle with, not excel at.

[Gypyx]

It's hard because the scum can get rid of the good townies with no problem, here this problem is nonexistant because the part of the game that matters is nightless

[northsidegal]

Popcorn Explosion

2 Mafia Goons

2 Mafia Popcorn Machines

9 Vanilla Townies

• Nightless until the first elimination of a Mafia Popcorn Machine.
  
• From there, the game proceeds as Popcorn.
  • Starting with the eliminated Popcorn Machine, each player chooses the next player to die and is then removed from the game.
    
  • The player chosen to die then has a certain deadline—during which discussion continues—that they must pick the next player to die by, and so on until the game is over.

In case it's not clear, an example:
The game starts as nightless. One of the popcorn machines (let's say it's me) is eliminated. I then pick RadiantCowbells to die. I'm removed from the game as normal. RC remains in the game and has to pick the next person to die. He picks Isis to die, after which RC is removed from the game and Isis has to pick, and so on. All the while, discussion can continue: the game is never locked. Failure to pick by deadline results in random targeting.

I feel roughly alright with the balance, in-practice EV shouldn't be overwhelmingly town like it is in plain nightless given that scum have vengekills. I'm actually not sure what the EV effects of popcorn-style eliminations are. We might expect that town targeted for popcorn death by other town might have slightly worse reads than random eliminations and that town targeted for popcorn death by scum might have slightly better, so it might even out.

Can obviously tweak the numbers of popcorn machines by e.g. making all mafia popcorn machines or by introducing town popcorn machines (might be a bad idea though given claim weirdness).

[Isis]

I would introduce Town Popcorn Machines that get VT PMs, but the scum know that they're Popcorn Machines. The scum would know they're more important to pocket from day 1. That seems like interesting gameplay.

I like the setup.

[northsidegal]

Another idea:

Situation Room

4 Mafia City Planners

13 Town City Planners

• Begins Nightless.
  
• When a City Planner is eliminated, the entirety of their wagon is added to a new neighborhood. This neighborhood will remain open until the end of the following day.
  
• After 5 eliminations, the game thread is locked.
  
• From there, each neighborhood is opened again and gains a nightkill, decided by majority vote within the neighborhood.
  
• The game continues with nightkills decided within the neighborhoods until one faction has achieved victory.

aka "Panic Room but hopefully not broken".

Definitely open to input on the numbers here, although I really like the concept. Not really sure how to balance starting nightless but then proceeding to the shootout. Maybe I should tend towards scumsiding it because scum don't ever get the ability to remove people they want to remove, it could be wildly townsided as is.

[northsidegal]

I would introduce Town Popcorn Machines that get VT PMs, but the scum know that they're Popcorn Machines. The scum would know they're more important to pocket from day 1. That seems like interesting gameplay.

I like the setup.

Yeah, that seems fun and also increases the chances that the mechanic actually gets used even if scum sweep the game.

Popcorn Explosion

2 Mafia Goons

2 Mafia Popcorn Machines

2 Town Popcorn Machines

7 Vanilla Townies

• Nightless until the first elimination of a Popcorn Machine.
  
• From there, the game proceeds as Popcorn.
  • Starting with the eliminated Popcorn Machine, each player chooses the next player to die and is then removed from the game.
    
  • The player chosen to die then has a certain deadline—during which discussion continues—that they must pick the next player to die by, and so on until the game is over.
• The Mafia are informed of the identities of the Town Popcorn Machines. The Town Popcorn Machines are given VT role PMs.

[Isis]

Another idea:

Situation Room

4 Mafia City Planners

13 Town City Planners

• Begins Nightless.
  
• When a City Planner is eliminated, the entirety of their wagon is added to a new neighborhood. This neighborhood will remain open until the end of the following day.
  
• After 5 eliminations, the game thread is locked.
  
• From there, each neighborhood is opened again and gains a nightkill, decided by majority vote within the neighborhood.
  
• The game continues with nightkills decided within the neighborhoods until one faction has achieved victory.

aka "Panic Room but hopefully not broken".

Definitely open to input on the numbers here, although I really like the concept. Not really sure how to balance starting nightless but then proceeding to the shootout. Maybe I should tend towards scumsiding it because scum don't ever get the ability to remove people they want to remove, it could be wildly townsided as is.

Do the 5 nightkills resolve simultaneously? It seems like it would probably be too easy to orchestrate a scenario where the second wave of nightkills eliminates all but 1 player from the game, allowing the town to win with one correct townread. It probably wouldn't be possible to setup if all four scum is alive by that point due to the likelihood of an all-scum neighborhood, but a mediocre town performance clearing 1-2 scum seems like it could set it up.
It's also a strategy which, even if it doesn't overall give overtuned EV, is grindy to actually execute but feels wasteful not to execute.
Sequential kills from the neighborhoods fixes this and seems better I think although I know it has much less fun game tempo.

[northsidegal]

Good point, I definitely missed that. Yeah, sequential kills maybe starting from the earliest neighborhood to the latest would fix that. The game could transition to blitz deadlines at that point, I imagine that might be fun.

[northsidegal]

I think that situation room's EV might just be nightless ?? Unless mafia have total control over one of the neighborhoods

maybe better numbers would be 10:5 with the neighborhood kills kicking in after the fourth elimination? i kind of prefer more neighborhoods over fewer though

[Isis]

Before eLo mafia-controlled neighborhoods can be held accountable for their decisionmaking so even that is not truly and completely a case where the behavior deviates from nightless EV.

Considering the neighborhoods get less neighborhoody the more they get winnowed down, maybe a black flag condition would be the best balance toolkit choice for fixing the nightless townsidedness.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

BLOOD SACRIFICE

3 Mafia

8 Vanilla Town

Initially Nightless.
Mafia gain a factional nightkill when they are reduced to one player.

[JacksonVirgo]

Push the Button

1x Town Macho Cop

1x Town Doctor

8x Vanilla Townie

3x Mafia Goon

SETUP INFORMATION

• Each day-phase, each player may vote to eliminate a player as in any normal FM game.
  
• each night-phase, Mafia may choose to kill a player and the Town PRs may use their actions.
  
• During each day-phase, each player may also vote to push the button by using the HEAL: Button tags. If majority vote to push the button, the button will be pressed forcing the entire Town into a lock-down. This removes the night-phase entirely making the game a nightless game.
  
• Once each may a Mafia Goon choose to attack a player in the main thread by using the HURT: Player tags.
  
• Town cannot vote to push the button on the first two days.
  
• Only alignments will flip among death.

Probably bad but just right off my head.

[Jake The Wolfie]

"Once each may a Mafia Goon choose to attack a player in the main thread by using the HURT: Player tags."

..What?

[JacksonVirgo]

"Once each may a Mafia Goon choose to attack a player in the main thread by using the HURT: Player tags."

..What?

They can yeet themselves to kill a dude during the day. It's to stop Town from having two IC's if they push the button immediately. Idk

[Gypyx]

well yeah they could, but it only leaves one goon to survive like, a 1v4, supposing town exed 2 townies of course

[JacksonVirgo]

well yeah they could, but it only leaves one goon to survive like, a 1v4, supposing town exed 2 townies of course

Having one IC in a 2v5 is not bad. Maybe making it a factional 1-shot suicide bomber or something.