Disclaimer: this setup is adapted from a Town of Salem: Anticipation setup, a discord Mafia group who play with a significantly evolved version of Town of Salem's roles and rules, along with their own custom ones.
Mafia Gunslinger
Mafia Goon
Town Gunslinger
6
Vanilla Townies
Mafia Gunslinger is
not
informed of their partner.
No PTs.
Mafia are
not
granted a nightkill at first. Skip nights until they are.
At any time during the day a Gunslinger may sacrifice themselves to dayvig another player, with different results based on who they shoot:
If the Town Gunslinger is eliminated outside of a shot, then the Mafia Gunslinger is vanillaized and the game remains nightless.
If the Mafia Gunslinger is eliminated outside of a shot, the surviving Mafia Goon is granted a nightkill.
This seems more like a marathon-speed game.
Spoiler: Role PMs
Last edited by Cook on Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:41 pm, edited 4 times in total.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
I can see a quick downside to this — Mafia Gunslinger always shoots at the start of the game and it always turns into MeLo the day following, unless they shoot the Gunslinger.
Perhaps Gunslinger should also be uninformed D1, such that on a random shot, it's a 1/6 mafia loss, 1/6 mafia win, 4/6 game continues.
But also consider too, with an informed mafia gunslinger, they can at the start of the first day immediately dayvig someone which will
always
work in the Mafia's favor — with a 1/5 chance of simply winning from this gamble and a 4/5 chance that the game becomes a 1:4 mountainous game with a night phase next — meaning the remaining Goon simply shoots a townleader and then it's MeLo.
Without an informed Mafia Gunslinger, that immediate dayvig now is only a 1/6 chance for an immediate win, a 2/3 chance that the game becomes 1:4 mountainous with night phase next, and a 1/6 chance that instead the Mafia loses.
Also fun note: gunslingers can't claim publicly as the other slinger will simply shoot them, which is a neat perversion on the "power townie claims and leads" mechanic, such that it'll only work
after
a Gunslinger has been found, which is unlikely to happen as they'll simply "venge" once someone has intent to hammer.
Doesnt the theme of this game run directly contrary to optimal play for town (at least on first glance)?
I think it also breaks to scum just being gutsy? If they shoot first post its a 1/6 game over in loss, 1/6 game over in win, 4/6 game continues as 4:1 where there are zero interactions and town now just has to get lucky (53% scum win from that point? Its minimally 40% and feels like town just chooses two players they dont want to win). Pretty much I think you cant allow them to shoot D1 or the optimal move becomes killing someone in their very first post, as scum should have an over 50% win rate from there as town literally is just for lack of a better word shooting in the dark.
Seems like some 5:2 vengeful mixed with that old setup that was 3:2 and first town out got a venge kill that if hit right scum ended game. Feels more like its a setup that is intended to trick players into making theoretically bad moves.
Yeah that might work better. Need to think about it but otherwise I think if you give scum D1 ability to use their power they logically should ASAP to remove any sort of interactions, even though in that scenario the goon should just ignore their partner and even be fine killing them off immediately. Makes me wonder if tweaking something from a really old game that was something like 7-2 "mountainous" but a twist was if both scum were alive N2 one of them would automatically die overnight.
I just still have a feeling that this game plays best for scum if they completely ignore their partner and both act like SKs (at least through first few days). Its an interesting concept, but it feels like there is going to be a clear path of optimization which shouldnt really exist in opens.
In post 13, Cook wrote:question: have you seen the part where the mafia has no nightkill until a gunslinger's died?
Yep. I would actually modify it to "if either scum dies" where both turn into goons. Otherwise its almost too hard for scum to win with a D1 goon death. Or just tweak it... if either town/scum primary role are voted out they get a venge kill. If they hit other primary role they win.
I think you do have to at least handicap the scum GS into "cannot shoot Day One" (or maybe even D1 only?) though to make this work. It also starts running afoul of the issue of if scum dont both know each other, is it really mafia if there is no informed minority. Concept is interesting, im just trying to see how it plays out in practice and there seem to be moves that at least start detaching it from typical stuff.
Now im not saying its broken or anything, but I think that if there are not at least two scum who know who each other are, or at least have a searching ability to find the other, it doesnt make actually seem like mafia. If the scum GS can get away with it, trying to eliminate the entire aspect of an "informed minority" pretty much removes any chance of scum being able to be truly "caught"
In post 15, LlamaFluff wrote:Now im not saying its broken or anything, but I think that if there are not at least two scum who know who each other are, or at least have a searching ability to find the other, it doesnt make actually seem like mafia. If the scum GS can get away with it, trying to eliminate the entire aspect of an "informed minority" pretty much removes any chance of scum being able to be truly "caught"
fair. my current compromise (and not a permanent one) is that if the town gunslinger dies without being killed by the scum GS (rarely, if ever, unfortunately) that the now-two goons are granted a PT.
Maybe just get creative with how the GS kill works?
Make it Goon-Goon (2:5) who have daytalk but no NK to start, but get one collective shot that they have to agree on in the PT. If they hit the Town GS they win. If they hit VT they lose. Then town GS essentially stays the same. Scum team has no kill unless one of them gets taken out by the GS. If they get voted out game remains nightless forever.