Been kicking this one around a bit... a play on Mountainous to essentially give town a few more (albeit very uncontrollable) kills
9x Vengeful Townie
1x Town 2-Shot Continual Voyeur
1x Mafia Vanillaizer
1x Mafia Encryptor
Mod Notes
*Players are not told if they have been targeted by the vanillaizer, only are told their role fails if applicable (Voyure will get "results failed" all nights, Vengeful would fail to get a shot off, Encryptor would have action fail (Mafia topic locks during days))
*If targeted by Vanillaizer, player flips as "Vanillaized Town/Mafia". No twilight phase for vengeful actions is necessary if the player has lost their role.
*Motion Detector targets are continuous. As long as they maintain their role they will receive "Player X" was targeted even if it occurs in a later night. For example they target Player A night one, if they still have their role and night three the Mafia Vanillaizer targets Player A, they get a positive result.
*Mafia Vanillaizer may target Encryptor for WIFOM purposes (factional kill ability will remain)
Sample roles
Last edited by LlamaFluff on Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mostly because im old school and usually an encryptor was required for day talk. It also means if scum want to target scum and hope they got motion detected then it forces them to sacrifice day talk. Its pretty much just trying to take a 12P Mountainous and give town a couple extra kills through venge scenarios.
MD can potentially get 2 innocent results and claim to be IC'd. I'd probably say it's testable at 1 shot for the MD, but I'd bet without running the numbers that even without the MD it is more townsided than 11v2. (11v2 is 40% EV for town, roughly, but also considered the 'balanced' mountainous 13p iirc.)
In post 4, Jingle wrote:Honestly seems a bit townsided to me.
MD can potentially get 2 innocent results and claim to be IC'd. I'd probably say it's testable at 1 shot for the MD, but I'd bet without running the numbers that even without the MD it is more townsided than 11v2. (11v2 is 40% EV for town, roughly, but also considered the 'balanced' mountainous 13p iirc.)
I think the MD is weaker than you do, I almost see it more as named townie territory. If you assume that they will never be voted out, by end of N2 they will have had up to two chances to get venge killed, scum will have had two NKs and up to two Vanilla shots off. If Vanillaize lives to N2 scum will have targeted 40% of all townies with a night action, any of those on MD damage its clearing ability which involves some luck to start. This is more giving town two extra shots to get rid of scum via venge kills and throwing in a named player.
Sure, most of the time the MD is gonna be weak as hell. After a scum elim though any negative motion results are confirmed clear and prior to that you can get a pretty reasonable clear or guilty through two nights (tainted by wifom sure, but a low value wifom anyway)
If you assume a town elim on D1 then you’re already at 11:2 with a named townie numbers (although the venges hitting the MD are a valid concern that drops the effectiveness of the named townie aspect) and if you elim a mafia you’re way far ahead. I agree you’re only likely to hit 2-3 venges most games, possibly fewer.
FWIW: I think your setup solves both of my main issues with mountainous (games tend to drag and scum actually has an incentive to PR hunt. I just think you’re giving town a little too much to make up for the deficit, particularly when we’re in a bit of a row sided meta atm.
In post 6, Jingle wrote:Sure, most of the time the MD is gonna be weak as hell. After a scum elim though any negative motion results are confirmed clear and prior to that you can get a pretty reasonable clear or guilty through two nights (tainted by wifom sure, but a low value wifom anyway)
Now I am wondering if the role name is different than it used to be... Motion Detector should get "Was Visited" or "Was not Visited" it wouldnt pick up a performed action. It pretty much is a "This player got killed or vanillaized" result.
If you assume a town elim on D1 then you’re already at 11:2 with a named townie numbers (although the venges hitting the MD are a valid concern that drops the effectiveness of the named townie aspect) and if you elim a mafia you’re way far ahead. I agree you’re only likely to hit 2-3 venges most games, possibly fewer.
Game starts 10:2 with one player who essentially at worst clear wise will be countered by scum. If things go very wrong for town, D3 is starting at 4:2 with no one clear or clearable. EV of 10:2 is 33% for town, this adds a clear which boosts that a little to start, and then adds another two (probably) chances for town to hit scum. Almost turns it into Double Day just where the second elimination of the day is decided by a single player.
In post 7, LlamaFluff wrote:Now I am wondering if the role name is different than it used to be... Motion Detector should get "Was Visited" or "Was not Visited" it wouldnt pick up a performed action. It pretty much is a "This player got killed or vanillaized" result.
Ah. That’s a variant role.
MD gets motion or no motion and is triggered either by the target acting or being acted upon (or both) with no distinction between the two. You can use md as described, but need to make it clear that it’s a nonstandard md.
I’d honestly suggest using voyeur instead since there’s no name ambiguity and it’s not really hard to make the jump from “targeted by an action and didn’t die” to “vanilla-ized” here, and scum should never double up their targets.
Still think its pretty much just a somewhat stronger than normal named townie though as they need to hit town, and hit town on the same night (or earlier than) scum hits the same player with a specific role to be effective.
I think overall it can be an interesting setup to trial run once though.
Oh, I agree. And it being voyeur invalidates my concern over it clearing too many townies. I definitely think it’s worth trying and is probably either balanced or very close to balanced.
I think it’s likely that scum won’t choose to wifom the vanilla-ize bc the risk of the voyeur being vanillad or killed or their targets being killed is pretty real so it’s not really that scary to scum. I do like the fact that you can trade daychat for a potential false inno in the late game as a design feature though, and assuming decent pl and non conflicting schedule I’d play this.
Will probably try and get a wiki page made for it and in a queue near the end of the week... better names are always open for suggestion. I think the only old setup that at least has a variant that I originally designed is Stack the Deck (now modified a bit) and naming things isnt my forte as that wasnt even suggested by me.
I'm assuming your inspiration seems like this which I made a long while ago.
In that thread MURDERCAT calculated the EV of a 7 town : 2 goon setup to be 43%, if the Venged townies had a chance to shoot too.
also the encryptor is useless. if the encryptor dies, the vanillaizer will be the only person left. what's the use of not letting them speak to themselves tbh
anyway
you added a 2-shot continous voyeur and a vanillizer, i don't care about the encryptor because it's kinda useless to the game
anyway
i thiiiink the vanillizer gives about more power than the voyeur considering that the voyeur can't track the encryptor and can be vanillised. making EV lower than 40%
consider buffing town a bit ig
