[MECHANIC] The Thing

[lendunistus]

This mechanic is for secret alt games.

Each night, the Mafia can perform one of two types of kills.

1) Normal factional NK: Functions exactly like how a regular factional NK would.

2) Doppelganger kill: The target loses access to their account and the killer takes control of it instead. The killer's old account will show up as a dead Vanilla Townie.

psyche suggested making it so that the killer's old account would show up as a dead mafioso instead. thoughts?

I was thinking of running this as a 9p micro first to test if people like the mechanic. i'll probably post some setup ideas down below

all I want for now is thoughts on the setups/mechanic itself. if you want to express interest, PM me.
thanks!

[lendunistus]

one of said setup ideas

First Setup

Fruit And A Cop

2x Mafia Goon

5x Vanilla Townie
1x Town Fruit Vendor
1x Town Cop

my aim was to make something that would be slightly townsided without the mechanic. FV and cop are two clears, although they have some counterclaim potential. maybe give mafia an FV too? although they'd be forced to vend fruit every night if they want to keep their CC potential. maybe counteract this by giving the FV multitasking.

thoughts?

[Kerset]

If you want to introduce global mechanic like this one then your roles should also interact with it. I would put two motion detectors.

[Kerset]

Some people say that Newbie semiopen would be townsided, if played by expirenced players. Maybe you can replace scum power with Doppelganger and host it in that unique way.

[Something_Smart]

I feel like this kind of thing has been discussed before. Timezones are a major headache. You'd probably have to limit it to people in a few timezones, maybe going so far as to lock the thread for 8 hours a day or something.

Also you'd have to establish a very clear rule about what kind of identity-confirming tactics are allowed. I've played this kind of game on Epicmafia (RIP) and people would write out phrases like "____E_ __O___ ___T __ T___" and then the next day fill them in "YANKEE DOODLE WENT TO TOWN" to prove that they hadn't been disguised. There are all sorts of related tactics for this, and most of them are going to be pretty effective unless you ban them.

[lendunistus]

Some people say that Newbie semiopen would be townsided, if played by expirenced players. Maybe you can replace scum power with Doppelganger and host it in that unique way.

do you mean just giving the mafia the thing ability by default or do you mean just removing scum power roles from the setup and replacing them with the thing ability?

[lendunistus]

I feel like this kind of thing has been discussed before. Timezones are a major headache. You'd probably have to limit it to people in a few timezones, maybe going so far as to lock the thread for 8 hours a day or something.

Also you'd have to establish a very clear rule about what kind of identity-confirming tactics are allowed. I've played this kind of game on Epicmafia (RIP) and people would write out phrases like "____E_ __O___ ___T __ T___" and then the next day fill them in "YANKEE DOODLE WENT TO TOWN" to prove that they hadn't been disguised. There are all sorts of related tactics for this, and most of them are going to be pretty effective unless you ban them.

in the runs of this that I saw in my homesite, said tactics were just banned outright

making public reads based on someone’s identity, revealing your identity and hinting to it was also banned.

i’m thinking that public speculation as to what someone’s identity is should be banned completely and so should revealing it or hinting to it (although that might be hard to enforce since something like “I like pokemon” could also be a hint although it’s completely innocuous)

[Something_Smart]

in the runs of this that I saw in my homesite, said tactics were just banned outright

But, where do you draw the line? Is it legal to make a read on one day and explain it on another day? Is it legal to start telling a story on one day and finish it on another day? What if you do this by accident?

Not saying there's no satisfactory answer to this, but you will have to think pretty hard about it.

[Something_Smart]

Also, there's a design paradigm that says instead of banning talking about X, you give people an incentive not to talk about X. I've played secret alt games with a ban on discussing identities, and people were able to get around that. But games like Mask of Monsters and Burdened by Secrecy have punished players for revealing their identities, which worked pretty well. (Except for that time when Isis altslipped in the title forum and then edited her post specifically to throw me off. Gotta have a rule against that.)

[lendunistus]

in the runs of this that I saw in my homesite, said tactics were just banned outright

But, where do you draw the line? Is it legal to make a read on one day and explain it on another day? Is it legal to start telling a story on one day and finish it on another day? What if you do this by accident?

Not saying there's no satisfactory answer to this, but you will have to think pretty hard about it.

quoted from my homesite

“Ciphers/Codes/Trying to be Overly Clever is all forbidden. Make it difficult to have your body inhabited via posting style and quality, not by pointing back to the 6th letter of the 5th post of each day phase, to prove you are who you initially were. Play to the spirit of the game, both regarding The Thing mechanic, and regarding the Anonymous Account aspect.”

the examples you provided would be allowed since the mafioso could easily just make up an answer but stuff like ciphers would be banned

[lendunistus]

Also, there's a design paradigm that says instead of banning talking about X, you give people an incentive not to talk about X. I've played secret alt games with a ban on discussing identities, and people were able to get around that. But games like Mask of Monsters and Burdened by Secrecy have punished players for revealing their identities, which worked pretty well. (Except for that time when Isis altslipped in the title forum and then edited her post specifically to throw me off. Gotta have a rule against that.)

if we take kerset’s “two motion detectors” setup idea, maybe mafia could get an identity anti-claim that, when successful, turns the person who claimed their identity into a compulsive moonwalker (visits a random person each night)

although that would allow RNG to just completely screw either faction over. maybe a compulsive visitor that scum can control?

this only does something if there’s a motion detector/tracker/watcher/etc in the setup, I just got a quick idea

[Something_Smart]

“Ciphers/Codes/Trying to be Overly Clever is all forbidden. Make it difficult to have your body inhabited via posting style and quality, not by pointing back to the 6th letter of the 5th post of each day phase, to prove you are who you initially were. Play to the spirit of the game, both regarding The Thing mechanic, and regarding the Anonymous Account aspect.”

I suspect that "play to the spirit of the game" is not going to cut it here Both because people may think they can get away with stuff (and will be justified, in some cases), and because a certain percentage of people who join your game probably won't understand the spirit well enough to follow this rule.

Besides, I do think there are situations where the line is not clear. What if I were to come up with, say, a really complicated riddle and post it? Is that "making it difficult to have my body inhabited via posting style"? The mafia who takes over my body will have to either come up with the correct answer or a reasonable-sounding fake answer (generally impossible for a well-constructed riddle).

There's also the sketchy tactic of making yourself miserable (e.g. posting once every 3 hours for a 24-hour period) in order to make whoever takes over your account miserable, and I don't like the way that blends RL and mafia when RL should always be more important.

[Gamma Emerald]

Epicmafia (RIP)

wait did EM actually DIE?

[T3]

Epicmafia (RIP)

wait did EM actually DIE?

All the good players were playing in the sandbox lobbies and there were like 15 people and their 100 alts who actually played in the main so the owner pulled the plug. Also I think it was losing money because really though who would buy tennis balls to support a site of 15 people.