[setup] Commandless Chain of Command

[Datisi]

the dream of fixing chain of command is not dead. and since i see the micro queue is kind of empty at the moment...

commandless chain of command

7 x

townies

2 x

mafia

first, the moderator flips a coin to see whether there will be 2 or 3 town power roles in the setup.

if there are 2 town power roles in the game:
- 2 random power roles are chosen from the list and given to town.
- the mafia is factionally informed of 1 random power role that is not in the game.

if there are 3 town power roles in the game:
- 3 random power roles are chosen from the list and given to town.
- the mafia is factionally informed of 1 random power role that is not in the game.
- the mafia is given a 1-shot factional roleblock. like the factional nightkill, it has to be assigned to one of the mafia members, and it is visible to trackers/watchers.

the mafia is able to multitask. both mafia members always flip as mafia goons.

the list of possible roles in the game is:

• babysitter
  
• doctor
  
• tracker
  
• lazy jailkeeper
  
• lazy roleblocker
  
• 1-shot friendly neighbour
  
• 1-shot neapolitan
  
• 1-shot loyal vigilante
  
• 1-shot watcher

if nobody yells at me and tells me that this is a horrible idea and that i should delete my mafiascum account and never come to this website again, i am probably queueing this sometime soon-ish. a sanity check would be appreciated, though.

[Datisi]

1-shot gunsmith feels like a way too polarized role wrt usefulness for town and scum. slapping an ascetic onto it fixes it a little bit i think?

[Datisi]

"why don't i try to balance and de-swing one of the most unbalanced and swingy micro setups," said datisi

adding lazy to jailkeeper and roleblocker, putting a 1-shot loyal vig in the game, and also babysitter? lmao

[Kerset]

vengeful is too good on maf, compared to other roles

[Datisi]

yeah, probably. i would like another gunsmith-positive role, though. is 1-shot neap instead of the vengeful too strong for town?

[Isis]

Just make it loyal vengeful it's not that different

[Isis]

The rolecop is kind of a flavor cop I think there's enough roles available to cut it

[Datisi]

loyal vengeful, sure

but rolecop is muh gunsmith false positive >_>

[Datisi]

i will remove it if isis thinks it should be removed because isis is smarter at mafia than i am

[Gamma Emerald]

you suggested os neap to replace the vengeful, maybe use neap/VC to replace the rolecop?

[Datisi]

hmm, maybe

is 1-shot neap too strong for town, though? the vanilla cop seems decently like a downgrade from the rolecop, which i'm pretty eh on

[Not_Mafia]

This is a horrible idea and you should delete your mafiascum account and never come to this website again

[Not_Mafia]

loyal vengeful, sure

but rolecop is muh gunsmith false positive >_>

Detective?

[Datisi]

i thought of detective, but it feels like a second tracker, except one that can almost get only guilties. also i don't want a lot of roles that go too high up in power once one scum is dead, i'm still pretending like i know things about balance and swing

[Datisi]

i bullied isis on discord and she told me that 1-shot neap is prob fine so we're yeeting that in

[Something_Smart]

why don't you just not give scum the power they are assigned? scum randing a PR is already pretty rough because it means that town doesn't get one, they don't need to get a power on top of that.

[Something_Smart]

I guess that makes tracker pretty strong. maybe scum could get a visitor or something, or maybe just a weak role they always have like a 1 shot vanilla cop?

[Datisi]

is the game that unbalanced with the possibility of scum getting a power role?

i was thinking about making a rule where the pr assignment is rerolled if both scum land a pr, since that sounds pretty brutal for town, but then i decided against it as it would then conftown the other two prs if the scum one were to flip. but if the game is that scumsided, maybe that would bring it into the right direction?

[Something_Smart]

I'm more worried about swing than balance; I think it's moderately scumsided if scum gets a PR but more importantly it's a significant swing based on how many of them do. My idea could also be used to deal with that issue if you make the information factional so then the scum who rolled the PR slot would flip goon anyway. It also would let you eliminate the loyal from those killing roles (though maybe vig would need some kind of nerf as otherwise it's kinda OP).

Balance can be changed by changing the roles, but if the setup concept is inherently high-swing then well-selected roles can't do much about that. That's kinda what I'm looking to avoid (it's obviously not the end of the world, but I tend to favor low-swing games, because it's not really fun for either team if the setup swings hard to one side).

[Datisi]

hm, i see. what do you mean by make the information factional? inform scum what pr(s) were they "supposed" to rand, or?

loyal can be removed from the vengeful, but i want *something* to make it a bit less powerful, at least something that makes it unable to act in lylo. and 1-shot vig still sounds pretty powerful, so maybe keep the loyal on that one?

[Something_Smart]

hm, i see. what do you mean by make the information factional? inform scum what pr(s) were they "supposed" to rand, or?

That's what I had in mind yeah.

You could probably just disable vengeful in lylo. Vig being loyal I do like for balance reasons because it lets scum fakeclaim it.

[Datisi]

alright, that sounds decent. inform scum of what roles were they supposed to roll, disable vengeful in lylo. and also in mylo?

i guess this slightly buffs the gunsmith for town (since no more mafia doctor false negatives), but also nerfs it since scum has theoretically more room to safely fakeclaim gunsmith positive roles.

maybe i should remove the ascetic from the gunsmith, then?

[Something_Smart]

Yeah probably, that kinda just innos it to any investigative.

[Datisi]

aight. thanks, s_s!

[petapan]

immediate concern without reading the thread at all to see what other people have posted is that the potential for a vengeful or vig on mafia in a 9p game is maybe a bit too swingy - venge on mafia is just a nasty surprise in 5p and a vig has the potential to to make day 2 a surprise elo which is not fun for town

do like the lazy modifier on jk/rb so they dont turn into cops when 1 mafia is lost