[SETUP] Balance Your Budget 9p

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[SETUP] Balance Your Budget 9p

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Sun Dec 26, 2021 11:07 pm

Post by Cook »

This setup randomly generates power roles from a list of curated ones using a pointbuy system — modifiers and roles are taken into account to try to keep the balance of the game even.

7
Town

2
Mafia


We start by adding 4 VTs and a Goon.

First roll is 1d3 to determine the scum PR
1. Goon (no bonus budget)
2. Rolecop (1 bonus point)
3. Roleblocker (2 bonus points)


If there's any extra points gained from the scum PR then we add those to the initial Town PR Budget.

We then roll 3d10 to determine the Town PRs, and note the point costs for each.
1. cop (costs 4 points)
2. tracker (costs 3 points)
3. vanilla cop (costs 1 point)
4. neapolitan (costs 3 points)
5. role cop (costs 2 points)
6. doctor (costs 3 points)
7. jailkeeper (costs 4 points)
8. 1-Shot Bulletproof (costs 2 points, skips the modifier step)
9. 2 Masons (costs 4 points, drop all other town PR rolls if Masons aren't dropped)
10. friendly neighbor (costs 3 points)


We then roll 3d4 and assign the results to the Town PRs accordingly.

1. No mod
2. No mod
3. Role becomes 2-Shot (cost reduced by 1 point)
4. Role becomes Even-Night (cost reduced by 1 point)


After the role + modifier combos are generated, we tally up the "cost" of each PR. Since the Town only has a budget of 4 points (plus a little extra if there are scum PRs), we're sure to go over our balanced budget.

In the case of that, we "drop" the most recent PR we rolled, vanillaizing it and getting rid of the cost of it, and repeat until we have a balanced setup.

If the Town is under budget then they receive a mod-confirmed message eliminating one random (rolled at setup randing) unused Mafia PR as a possibility.



Version history:
8 June 2023 - renamed setup.
Last edited by Cook on Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Sun Dec 26, 2021 11:08 pm

Post by Cook »

Rolling for Mafia PR
Original Roll String: 1d3 (STATIC)
1 3-Sided Dice: (1) = 1

Mafia Goon
, +0 Budget.

Rolling for the Informed possibility
Original Roll String: 1d2 (STATIC)
1 2-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

If 1 rolls on PR, 1=2 and 2=3. If 2 rolls on PR, 1=1 and 2=3. If 3 rolls on PR, 1=1 and 2=2.

Rolling for Town PRs + mods
Original Roll String: 3d10 (STATIC)
3 10-Sided Dice: (9, 10, 9) = 28


Original Roll String: 3d4 (STATIC)
3 4-Sided Dice: (3, 4, 4) = 11


Mason Pair
(modifier dropped for inapplicability) - 4 Budget
Even-Night Friendly Neighbor
- 2 Budget
Mason Pair
- 4 Budget

As you can see, we are at 10 cost instead of the 4 Budget we have. So we must eliminate PRs, from most recent to least recent.

Eliminate Mason Pair = 6 cost remains
Eliminate Even-Night Friendly Neighbor = 4 cost remains
4 cost = 4 Budget

Setup balanced:

2
Mafia Goons

2
Town Masons

5
Vanilla Townies
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Sun Dec 26, 2021 11:15 pm

Post by Cook »

While that wasn't the greatest example, it should illustrate somewhat how the system works.

The goal of balance is to fine-tune the list, ideally shorten it, and fine-tune the prices, such that setups are still balanced but can roll anything on the above.

Feedback appreciated.
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:38 am

Post by StrangeMatter »

Interesting. I'm not sure TFN should be three but I've never seen it used to its best effect so not too sure about that.
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:40 pm

Post by Cook »

FN can eliminate threats to themselves by hugging players scumreading them.

Also the idea of someone who can self-confirm is powerful.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:29 pm

Post by TemporalLich »

I am pretty sure Mason could have a modified version of the modifiers (note: likely not Normal)

2-shot becomes Cycle 1/2 for Masons - they get the PT until Day 3
Even Night becomes Even Cycle for Masons - The PT is only unlocked on even cycles
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Tue Dec 28, 2021 12:25 am

Post by mc esther »

just thoughts idk dont take them too seriously i dont have a mafia phd

jailkeeper seems really bad. in goons-only, it doesnt seem a significant improvement on 2:7 doc, and im not sure 2:7 doc is a significant improvement on 2:7 mountainous. in mafia!rolecop, youre just as likely to block the town pr as you are to block the rolecop (and if there isnt a town pr, again i think 2:7 doc is a close enough model). in mafia!roleblocker, youre more likely to do the mafblocker's job than you are to meaningfully block them. i also just think that cop is significantly better and deserves its 4 point cost more.

im guessing this leans mafia-sided overall, but aside from jailkeeper, i dont think it's ever excessively unbalanced; i'd happily play this

instead of having even-night and two-shot, maybe just pick one and toss a coin for it? theyre both just usage restrictions, yeah? im guessing one is just strictly worse but im too lazy to figure out which. the additional complexity doesnt add much here, i think it mostly just gives mafia more flexibility in fakeclaims (though it'd be fair to view this as a good thing).

bulletproof should be allowed to go up to two-shot for +1 point-buy value imo, idk lol maybe that would be overpowered but it just sounds so cool

maybe "double-up" less, youve got five investigative roles, three protective roles (doc, jk, bp), and two "roles that self-clear almost for free". i think maybe switch some out for hider, joat, maybe even [weak? one-shot?] vig lol. rolling 2-shot on a joat with four powers sounds like it could be an interesting decision.

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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:21 pm

Post by schadd_ »

even night would be considerably worse than 2-shot, you dont expect micros to go to night 4 generally

i dont think the information about an unused mafia PR would be very helpful. an algorithm that would get you generally closer outcomes would be to remove the most expensive role which is still cheaper than the deficit
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:15 am

Post by Cook »

Rolled another setup.
Mafia PR (
1d3
) = 3 =
Mafia Roleblocker
(
+2 Budget
)
Informed Role (
1d2
) = 2 = (if we're under budget, Town learns there is no:
Mafia Rolecop
)
Town PR's (
3d10
) = 4, 3, 1 =
Town Neapolitan
(
-3 Budget
),
Town Vanilla Cop
(
-2 Budget
),
Town Cop
(
-4 Budget
)
Modifiers (
3d4
) = 3, 3, 1 = Neapolitan becomes
2-Shot
(and costs
1 less budget
), Vanilla Cop becomes
2-Shot
(and costs
1 less budget
), and Cop stays
ungated
.

Baseline budget (+4)
Mafia Roleblocker
(+2)
BUDGET TOTAL: 6


Town
2-Shot
Neapolitan
(-3+1) = (-2)
Town
2-Shot
Vanilla Cop
(-1+1) = (0)
Town Cop
(-4) = (-4)
SUBTOTAL: 6

BUDGET IS BALANCED!

Our Random Setup
Mafia Roleblocker

Mafia Goon

Town 2-Shot Neapolitan

Town 2-Shot Vanilla Cop

Town Cop

4
Vanilla Townies
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:34 am

Post by Ircher »

Yeah that setup looks pretty town sided.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:41 pm

Post by Cook »

It’s good that I found this as a possible break though. Means we can adjust.

I’m thinking pulling either neap or vancop from the list and pulling a protective role as well, so the die is a d8. Maybe reweight the costs too.
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:20 pm

Post by Ircher »

Maybe 2-shot to 1-shot works? I think it looks a lot more balanced at 1-shot for the Neapolitan and vanilla cop.
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:22 pm

Post by Ircher »

Original Roll String: 1d3
1 3-Sided Dice: (1) = 1

Original Roll String: 1d2
1 2-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

Original Roll String: 3d10
3 10-Sided Dice: (2, 1, 8) = 11

Original Roll String: 3d4
3 4-Sided Dice: (3, 2, 2) = 7
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:27 pm

Post by Ircher »

Mafia Goon x2

(No Mafia Roleblocker)

2-Shot Tracker (3 - 1 = 2)
Cop (4)
1-Shot Bulletproof (2)

So we have 8 to begin with so drop the bulletproof. That leaves us with 6, so drop the cop. That leaves us with 2 which makes us under budget, so the final setup is:

Mafia Goon x2
Town 2-Shot Tracker
Vanilla Townie x6

Town knows there is no mafia roleblocker.

Well, this one looks pretty scum sided. It'd be closer to balanced if we had kept the bulletproof.
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:13 pm

Post by Cook »

Any opposition to "drop most expensive, break ties by whatever was rolled last?"
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