[OPEN]Neighborhood Distribution

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[OPEN]Neighborhood Distribution

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:20 pm

Post by Alyssa The Lamb »

10 Town Vanillas

5 Mafia Vanillas


Nightless
Mafia have permanent access to their Scum PT, even if they are flipped
Neighborhoods are permanently open until they are eliminated.

In Pregame, the mafia select five players of any alignment (but no more than two mafia). Each player will gain their own neighborhood (A, B, C, D, or E), of which they are the only current participants.

During the day phase, there is no elimination round. Instead, the town votes to place players within a particular neighborhood, as designated by voting a Player and the designated neighborhood (VOTE: Alyssa The Lamb, B for example)
When parity is achieved on a specific player for a specific neighborhood, they are added to that neighborhood and may no longer be voted for in the main thread.
When a second player is added to a neighborhood, the first player is no longer allowed to talk in the main thread.
When a third player is added to a neighborhood, the neighborhood becomes closed and everyone within it is no longer allowed to post in the main thread.
Day continues until all five neighborhoods are full, after which the game depends on how the mafia are distributed within the neighborhoods:

5 Neighborhoods: Mafia wins immediately
4 Neighborhoods: Everybody is added back into the thread. The town can, in three separate day phases, vote for neighborhoods to remove from the game and flip. If they successfully eliminate all three neighborhoods with exactly one scum within it, town wins. If they vote out the all town neighborhood or the neighborhood with two scum within it, mafia wins.
3 Neighborhoods: The mafia must switch two players across neighborhoods so that two neighborhoods have two scum and one neighborhood has one scum. Afterwards, everybody is added back into the thread and a new day phase begins. Town can select specific neighborhoods to eliminate and flip. They win if all mafia are removed with town still remaining, while mafia wins if both all-town neighborhoods are removed.
2 Neighborhoods: Town wins immediately


The idea is that town specifically is looking to create as many all-town neighborhoods as possible and condense the mafia team into as few neighborhoods as possible, with a perfect distribution resulting in an immediate win, while the closest neighbor results in a more standard game where that side has an advantage.

I'm not entirely sure there's a strong way to break the game in a way that it becomes very hard for one faction to get a distribution that almost always favors them. I suspect the closest is scum specifically designating five town players as the initial neighborhood players, although soft confirming five players as town seems really dangerous when there's a high likelihood that the game isn't going to end in that phase.
Last edited by Alyssa The Lamb on Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:14 pm

Post by RH9 »

I think that you should make it so that Mafia has to select at least one Town member during pregame to avoid an auto win for Mafia because if the whole Mafia team is chosen pregame, Town has no way to stop the Mafia from winning.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:15 pm

Post by Alyssa The Lamb »

Whoops, yeah I'll make it two
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:05 pm

Post by northsidegal »

i enjoy the idea of having to group players together and think that there's something intrinsically satisfying about that. it sort of mechanically gets at something that people already do in terms of their reads—group people together—except whereas in a normal game the only way to express that is still an elimination, here it's a mechanic. i think it sort of also builds on partition mafia in a cool way which has more town interaction than in implosion's version where it's all controlled by scum.

i wonder if there might be a problem when it comes to voting on evens, though. it may be an unlikely possibility, but consider the scenario where three neighborhoods are filled at three, and the last two neighborhoods both have two people in them. thus, there are two people remaining. how do you resolve who goes where? if both players want to go to neighborhood 4, is it just the first person to vote themselves for it? that seems unsatisfying as a resolution.

i also think that the scenarios for when mafia have infiltrated 4 or 3 neighborhoods are a little inelegant. especially the part in the 4 neighborhood scenario where town voting out the hood with 2 mafia in it results in a town loss – that seems counterintuitive and potentially unfun. also, i think that the 3 neighborhood scenario has some ambiguity or at least the mechanic could be really unfun: if mafia have infiltrated 3 hoods, they've either done it 1-1-3 or 1-2-2. if they've done it 1-1-3, then according to what you've laid out there it seems like they have to swap one of their members into another one of the infiltrated hoods so that it becomes 1-2-2. but, in that scenario, doesn't that reveal two of the three total hoods which have scum in them at all? in other words, two players would get swapped, and it would be clearly and publicly visible which two players were swapped and from which hoods – thus, town would just eliminate both of those hoods, and then only have to find the last hood with 1 scum in it. alternatively, if scum are already in the 1-2-2 scenario, can they just swap two random townies? this seems like it would be frustrating all around no matter which way it went, but probably especially if you were the scumteam in the 1-1-3 scenario.

also, stepping back from a mechanics / EV perspective and towards the perspective of actually being a player, it seems like you lose a worrying amount of agency after being placed into a neighborhood. there is the possibility that you'll have to come back and vote out the hoods, but after you've been put in a hood you lose a lot of your ability to interact with the game, which seems like it could lead to people losing motivation to actually keep up with the thread. i wonder if there might be some way to make it so that you retain something to do even when you're in the hoods – maybe the 4/3 endgame scenarios could be something decided within the rooms themselves similar to situation room? i don't know.
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:43 pm

Post by Alyssa The Lamb »

I'm not really married to the specifics of the endgame

One other idea I have after reading through that is having each neighborhood in order for on whether they are a TTT neighborhood or not, but that sounds like it would be easier in a 3- neighborhood setup for scum when the intention is for that to be the more townsided version
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:49 pm

Post by Not Known 15 »

In post 4, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:I'm not really married to the specifics of the endgame

One other idea I have after reading through that is having each neighborhood in order for on whether they are a TTT neighborhood or not, but that sounds like it would be easier in a 3- neighborhood setup for scum when the intention is for that to be the more townsided version
But if we vary it a bit...

Otherwise, the neighborhoods vote on TTT or not.
In MMT neighborhoods, T not voting for TTT is enough
Players may lock their Not TTT vote, this includes Mafia.
MMM neighborhoods are lost to Mafia.
Then:2 neighborhoods with scum:If the town votes incorrectly on 4 neighborhoods, scum wins. Otherwise, town win.
TTT MMM TTM TTM TTT: scum win if 4 incorrect votes. Town win if 1 or less. If 3 or 2: All players are added back to the thread and must vote out the MMM neighborhood for town to win.
MMT MMT MTT TTT TTT:scum win if 4 or 5 incorrect votes.
Town win if 1 or less. If 3 or 2: All players are added back to the thread. 1 lim. Correct, town wins, otherwise mafia.
4 neighborhoods:scum win if 2-5 incorrect votes
Town win if 0 incorrect votes.
If 1 incorrect vote:All TTM neighborhoods perform a lim amongst themselves, and the TTT and MMT players go back to the thread and lim one. Town needs 3 correct lims. The thread lim majority only triggers if the neighborhoods have limmed.
5 neighborhoods:Town wins if all neighborhoods are correct and if these neighborhoods then each vote out scum amongst themselves. Otherwise scum wins.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:55 pm

Post by Alyssa The Lamb »

In post 3, northsidegal wrote:i wonder if there might be a problem when it comes to voting on evens, though. it may be an unlikely possibility, but consider the scenario where three neighborhoods are filled at three, and the last two neighborhoods both have two people in them. thus, there are two people remaining. how do you resolve who goes where? if both players want to go to neighborhood 4, is it just the first person to vote themselves for it? that seems unsatisfying as a resolution.

also, stepping back from a mechanics / EV perspective and towards the perspective of actually being a player, it seems like you lose a worrying amount of agency after being placed into a neighborhood. there is the possibility that you'll have to come back and vote out the hoods, but after you've been put in a hood you lose a lot of your ability to interact with the game, which seems like it could lead to people losing motivation to actually keep up with the thread. i wonder if there might be some way to make it so that you retain something to do even when you're in the hoods – maybe the 4/3 endgame scenarios could be something decided within the rooms themselves similar to situation room? i don't know.
the original idea I was thinking of was that the first player would still be able to contribute in a way through communicating with the second player. I actually expect that in practice the neighborhoods would be filled via putting two people in them one after the other (since that gives town the best odds of being able to shove their townreads into specific neighborhoods), but in the case that this happens, it might be enough that the neighbors still in the main thread are able to vote as well?
In post 5, Not Known 15 wrote:
In post 4, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:I'm not really married to the specifics of the endgame

One other idea I have after reading through that is having each neighborhood in order for on whether they are a TTT neighborhood or not, but that sounds like it would be easier in a 3- neighborhood setup for scum when the intention is for that to be the more townsided version
But if we vary it a bit...

Otherwise, the neighborhoods vote on TTT or not.
In MMT neighborhoods, T not voting for TTT is enough
Players may lock their Not TTT vote, this includes Mafia.
MMM neighborhoods are lost to Mafia.

Then:2 neighborhoods with scum:If the town votes incorrectly on 4 neighborhoods, scum wins. Otherwise, town win.

TTT MMM TTM TTM TTT: scum win if 4 incorrect votes. Town win if 1 or less. If 3 or 2: All players are added back to the thread and must vote out the MMM neighborhood for town to win.

MMT MMT MTT TTT TTT:scum win if 4 or 5 incorrect votes.
Town win if 1 or less. If 3 or 2: All players are added back to the thread. 1 lim. Correct, town wins, otherwise mafia.

4 neighborhoods:scum win if 2-5 incorrect votes
Town win if 0 incorrect votes.
If 1 incorrect vote:All TTM neighborhoods perform a lim amongst themselves, and the TTT and MMT players go back to the thread and lim one. Town needs 3 correct lims. The thread lim majority only triggers if the neighborhoods have limmed.

5 neighborhoods:Town wins if all neighborhoods are correct and if these neighborhoods then each vote out scum amongst themselves. Otherwise scum wins.
requoting just to put these spaces in since it was legitimately hard to parse beforehand
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:59 pm

Post by Alyssa The Lamb »

One possibility that might fix the problem is that once all the neighborhoods are formed, each neighborhood needs to play a 3p endgame within their own neighborhood. Whichever alignment wins 3 neighborhoods wins the game. But, all TTT and SSS neighborhoods flip immediately and create a win for their team. I'm thinking it's probably better to have the posting happen within the main thread itself.

So if there's only two neighborhoods with scum in it, then town immediately wins.
If there's three, then there's only three neighborhoods in play with scum knowing which one is the tiebreaker
If there's four, then it's effectively even, with town immediately having 3 townflips and a free win, while scum have the ability to know which neighborhood is an automatic win.
If there's five, then it's simply a standard set of 5 3p endgames.

I don't know if this gets across the idea I had that town wants to shove as many scum into as few neighborhoods as possible, but it would definitely simplify the concept a lot more.
Last edited by Alyssa The Lamb on Sat Jan 08, 2022 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:59 pm

Post by Alyssa The Lamb »

I actually got the above idea from NK15's post, it just seems a lot simpler
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:49 am

Post by Not Known 15 »

In post 7, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:One possibility that might fix the problem is that once all the neighborhoods are formed, each neighborhood needs to play a 3p endgame within their own neighborhood. Whichever alignment wins 3 neighborhoods wins the game. But, all TTT and SSS neighborhoods flip immediately and create a win for their team. I'm thinking it's probably better to have the posting happen within the main thread itself.

So if there's only two neighborhoods with scum in it, then town immediately wins.
If there's three, then there's only three neighborhoods in play with scum knowing which one is the tiebreaker
If there's four, then it's effectively even, with town immediately having 3 townflips and a free win, while scum have the ability to know which neighborhood is an automatic win.
If there's five, then it's simply a standard set of 5 3p endgames.

I don't know if this gets across the idea I had that town wants to shove as many scum into as few neighborhoods as possible, but it would definitely simplify the concept a lot more.
I don't like that, actually. 3 neighborhoods will be the expected standard, and unavoidable if scum chooses 5 townies.
EV is just about 33%there
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:55 pm

Post by Alyssa The Lamb »

does it change if all TSS neighborhoods also flip immediately?
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