[setup] The Turing Test

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
User avatar
Datisi
Datisi
he/him, it/its
Drawn from Memory

Drawn from Memory<br><img src=https://i.imgur.com/rUdtw5m.gif>
User avatar
User avatar
Datisi
he/him, it/its
Drawn from Memory

Drawn from Memory<br><img src=https://i.imgur.com/rUdtw5m.gif>
Drawn from Memory

Drawn from Memory<br><img src=https://i.imgur.com/rUdtw5m.gif>
Posts: 26007
Joined: March 28, 2019
Pronoun: he/him, it/its
Location: Croatia
Happy Scumday!

Post Post #25 (ISO) » Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:44 am

Post by Datisi »

7 out of 8 town need to vote together to yeet a scum

when have you seen 7/8 town agree on anything and be correct
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
~M
User avatar
Datisi
Datisi
he/him, it/its
Drawn from Memory

Drawn from Memory<br><img src=https://i.imgur.com/rUdtw5m.gif>
User avatar
User avatar
Datisi
he/him, it/its
Drawn from Memory

Drawn from Memory<br><img src=https://i.imgur.com/rUdtw5m.gif>
Drawn from Memory

Drawn from Memory<br><img src=https://i.imgur.com/rUdtw5m.gif>
Posts: 26007
Joined: March 28, 2019
Pronoun: he/him, it/its
Location: Croatia
Happy Scumday!

Post Post #26 (ISO) » Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:45 am

Post by Datisi »

if "town is 2/3rds way to its wincon" is too much, i guess i can try to find a way to nerf it, but like

idk it intuitively felt right to me but do i know anything about balance lol
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
~M
User avatar
Aristeia
Aristeia
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Aristeia
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 10219
Joined: July 17, 2021
Pronoun: She

Post Post #27 (ISO) » Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:46 am

Post by Aristeia »

if one scum is super scummy and gets pressure, its not like the rest of the team can pretend it's not happening, it would be somewhat outting no?
User avatar
Aristeia
Aristeia
She
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Aristeia
She
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 10219
Joined: July 17, 2021
Pronoun: She

Post Post #28 (ISO) » Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:46 am

Post by Aristeia »

I dunno maybe make it worth 1 point? 2 points feels like pretty hard to recover from.
User avatar
Datisi
Datisi
he/him, it/its
Drawn from Memory

Drawn from Memory<br><img src=https://i.imgur.com/rUdtw5m.gif>
User avatar
User avatar
Datisi
he/him, it/its
Drawn from Memory

Drawn from Memory<br><img src=https://i.imgur.com/rUdtw5m.gif>
Drawn from Memory

Drawn from Memory<br><img src=https://i.imgur.com/rUdtw5m.gif>
Posts: 26007
Joined: March 28, 2019
Pronoun: he/him, it/its
Location: Croatia
Happy Scumday!

Post Post #29 (ISO) » Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:48 am

Post by Datisi »

well maybe scum should git gud
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
~M
User avatar
Datisi
Datisi
he/him, it/its
Drawn from Memory

Drawn from Memory<br><img src=https://i.imgur.com/rUdtw5m.gif>
User avatar
User avatar
Datisi
he/him, it/its
Drawn from Memory

Drawn from Memory<br><img src=https://i.imgur.com/rUdtw5m.gif>
Drawn from Memory

Drawn from Memory<br><img src=https://i.imgur.com/rUdtw5m.gif>
Posts: 26007
Joined: March 28, 2019
Pronoun: he/him, it/its
Location: Croatia
Happy Scumday!

Post Post #30 (ISO) » Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:50 am

Post by Datisi »

wait, game can't end without a winner if a scum yeet happens since

town gets 1 point for that, 4 scum left in the game

at least one faction has to get to 3 in that time to win, so that's fine

i am slightly worried about, if it's worth only 1 point, that scum just turbobusses the weakest buddy, then coasts the rest of the game, but
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
~M
User avatar
Datisi
Datisi
he/him, it/its
Drawn from Memory

Drawn from Memory<br><img src=https://i.imgur.com/rUdtw5m.gif>
User avatar
User avatar
Datisi
he/him, it/its
Drawn from Memory

Drawn from Memory<br><img src=https://i.imgur.com/rUdtw5m.gif>
Drawn from Memory

Drawn from Memory<br><img src=https://i.imgur.com/rUdtw5m.gif>
Posts: 26007
Joined: March 28, 2019
Pronoun: he/him, it/its
Location: Croatia
Happy Scumday!

Post Post #31 (ISO) » Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:51 am

Post by Datisi »

the turing test8x townies
5x goons

day 1 plays as normal, with the players voting someone to eliminate.
~ if the person voted out is a townie, nobody scores any points.
~ if the person voted out is mafia, the town scores 1 point.

the mafia does not have a factional kill. instead, each night, starting from n1, scum must choose two players to participate in the turing test the next day. the only requirement is that the two people participating are 1 townie and 1 mafia.

from day 2 and on, there is no votes to eliminate; instead, each day there is a turing test. the two players selected by the mafia are announced and removed from the game, but
not
flipped. the votes are locked between the two selected players, and the living players must vote for the person in the pair they believe to be mafia.
~ if a mafia member is voted out, town scores 1 point.
~ if a townie is voted out, mafia scores 1 point.

after one of the two has been hammered, the alignments of the selected players are revealed, and the game goes back to the night phase.

the first faction to reach 3 points wins.
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
~M
User avatar
Gamma Emerald
Gamma Emerald
She/It
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Gamma Emerald
She/It
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 69101
Joined: August 9, 2016
Pronoun: She/It
Location: Hell on Earth (aka Texas)

Post Post #32 (ISO) » Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:09 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

This setup looks very cool, on paper scum would win by having 3 TRed scum go up against 3 less TRed row but in practice a moreflid strategy would be required
My one thought looking solely at the OP is that having someone show up in the test multiple times should be disallowed
<Embrace The Void>


My pronouns are she and it, please respect that. I don't mind the occasional slip.
User avatar
Gamma Emerald
Gamma Emerald
She/It
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Gamma Emerald
She/It
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 69101
Joined: August 9, 2016
Pronoun: She/It
Location: Hell on Earth (aka Texas)

Post Post #33 (ISO) » Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:18 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 18, Datisi wrote:maybe the game as it is in the op, except remove the voting phase and make the scum pick both slots, one of each alignment?
I don’t like this change tbh
I think allowing town 50% control of the test pair allows for interesting strategies
Like, two approaches with the same core idea would be
A) vote in a towny player, and depending on who gets sent in determine whether scum was voted in
B) vote a scummy player in and see who scum pick in response to that
Another point is that pocketing is a bit disincentivized under the original concept since the pocket target can get voted in, and regardless of outcome they get removed from active play. I’m in favor of that wrinkle, to be clear.
<Embrace The Void>


My pronouns are she and it, please respect that. I don't mind the occasional slip.
User avatar
Gamma Emerald
Gamma Emerald
She/It
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Gamma Emerald
She/It
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 69101
Joined: August 9, 2016
Pronoun: She/It
Location: Hell on Earth (aka Texas)

Post Post #34 (ISO) » Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:20 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

I also think the current format makes days after day 1 kinda hamstrung
Having a voting phase each time feels more proper
<Embrace The Void>


My pronouns are she and it, please respect that. I don't mind the occasional slip.
User avatar
Datisi
Datisi
he/him, it/its
Drawn from Memory

Drawn from Memory<br><img src=https://i.imgur.com/rUdtw5m.gif>
User avatar
User avatar
Datisi
he/him, it/its
Drawn from Memory

Drawn from Memory<br><img src=https://i.imgur.com/rUdtw5m.gif>
Drawn from Memory

Drawn from Memory<br><img src=https://i.imgur.com/rUdtw5m.gif>
Posts: 26007
Joined: March 28, 2019
Pronoun: he/him, it/its
Location: Croatia
Happy Scumday!

Post Post #35 (ISO) » Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:20 pm

Post by Datisi »

In post 32, Gamma Emerald wrote:This setup looks very cool, on paper scum would win by having 3 TRed scum go up against 3 less TRed row but in practice a moreflid strategy would be required
My one thought looking solely at the OP is that having someone show up in the test multiple times should be disallowed
the one in the op is in the garbage, look at 31
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
~M
User avatar
Gamma Emerald
Gamma Emerald
She/It
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Gamma Emerald
She/It
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 69101
Joined: August 9, 2016
Pronoun: She/It
Location: Hell on Earth (aka Texas)

Post Post #36 (ISO) » Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:22 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

:roll:
<Embrace The Void>


My pronouns are she and it, please respect that. I don't mind the occasional slip.
User avatar
implosion
implosion
he/him
Polymath
User avatar
User avatar
implosion
he/him
Polymath
Polymath
Posts: 14328
Joined: September 9, 2010
Pronoun: he/him
Location: zoraster's wine cellar

Post Post #37 (ISO) » Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:45 am

Post by implosion »

I do think the idea of immediately killing the 1v1 is interesting - it obviously removes the awkwardness of the 1v1 just constantly complaining that everything the other person says is scummy.

Giving town control over one of the pair is too strong. They'll just pick the consensus towniest person and ignore the mafia's choice of who to put against them, or vice versa, but probably the towniest person bc most players are town. Why listen to what the mafia have to say? Heck, just picking someone at random, voting them in, and then assuming they're town would give town a super high win rate on average, similar to the monty hall problem.

This version with scum picking the whole 1v1 reminds me of Partition, where scum have a really high amount of freedom to craft a specific situation that they think they'll be able to win, but where it's hard to predict how the town will take it. There's lots of different variations you could do within this that could be interesting. You could force scum to lock in what all the pairs are going to be and in what order at the end of day one. You could give town more autonomy in some less robust way than just picking one of the two players - for instance, maybe they can vote in 2-3 people and mafia have to include at least one of them, which would be much less statistically broken for town I think. You could do something like allowing scum to pick two townies and town needing to figure that out. You could make it so scum picks 3 players with 1 scum out of them, but town doesn't need as many points to win compared to scum. Etc, etc.
User avatar
Titus
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
User avatar
User avatar
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
Moon Walker
Posts: 80249
Joined: May 3, 2013
Pronoun: She/her/hers
Contact:

Post Post #38 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2022 2:11 pm

Post by Titus »

/in
Show
The scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx

You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin

GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy

VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.

All hail the Scum Empress!
User avatar
Titus
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
User avatar
User avatar
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
Moon Walker
Posts: 80249
Joined: May 3, 2013
Pronoun: She/her/hers
Contact:

Post Post #39 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2022 2:11 pm

Post by Titus »

Wrong thread
Show
The scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx

You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin

GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy

VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.

All hail the Scum Empress!
User avatar
humaneatingmonkey
humaneatingmonkey
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
humaneatingmonkey
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 11122
Joined: June 7, 2017

Post Post #40 (ISO) » Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:01 pm

Post by humaneatingmonkey »

how many people did you invite datisi?

/in
Post Reply

Return to “Open Setup Discussion”