[SETUP] Immortal Nightless

[Irrelephant11]

Someone help me with the numbers here, I'm just taking a stab at guessing that 4v2 might be fair

immortal nightless

4v2
Nightless.

After every elimination, the eliminated player lives and continues to play and vote. It's only their alignment that flips.
Town wins by flipping both scum, scum wins by flipping three town.

Spoiler: messy EV math

T>T>T
4/6*3/5*2/4 = .2

T>T>S>T
4/6*3/5*2/4*2/3 = .133

T>S>T>T
4/6*2/5*3/4*2/3 = .133

S>T>T>T
2/6*4/5*3/4*2/3 = .133

I think town EV is .4, which seems in the realm of balanced. Is it fun? Does it already exist?

[Ydrasse]

off the top of my head it doesn’t seem very fun to not have as much agency as mafia to get rid of the people who you need to, like, it feels punishing to push... anyone? in a way that you don’t see in other games

i think it’s *interesting* conceptually though? i just feel it might cause mafia to get frustrated quickly, i’m unsure.

[Irrelephant11]

That's a good point. The uphill battle mafia faces balances out with the numbers being in their favor, but... there might be a way to tweak it so it's more fun.

Maybe just shortening it? If there's a way to balance something like "scum wins by eliminating 2 townies, town wins by eliminating 1 mafia"? Or something similar

[Irrelephant11]

Or maybe adding a goon and a couple townies would make it more fun, and "eliminate three townies vs. eliminate two mafia" could stay in place

[Irrelephant11]

v2

6v3
nightless

flipped players remain in the game, still able to converse and vote.
mafia win by eliminating 3 townies. Town wins by eliminating 2 scum.

Spoiler: ev

T>T>T: 6/9*5/8*4/7=.238
S>T>T>T: 3/9*6/8*5/7*4/6=.119
T>S>T>T=.119
T>T>S>T=.119

Town EV is .4 still, and this way mafia don't have to try to eliminate 3/4 townies, just 3/6. Meanwhile town has more scum to aim at, and don't need to find the whole team. Maybe more fun?