[Standard] Survivor: Know Your Enemies (Summer wins!)

For large social games such as Survivor where the primary mechanic is social interaction.
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Post Post #142 (isolation #0) » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:17 am

Post by Pine »

I think other people have covered all of the most important angles. I mostly want to talk to Ari, so I'll get the others out of the way.

Summer
- You are the standout winner here.

Image

Frankly, I think the play of the game might be the one that isn't really being talked about - eliminating SleepyKrew over Malkon at F5. F5 was the last point where you could really guarantee an elimination, as F4 is always dicey - either an immunity win or a single vote throwing you into a firemaking tie could put someone in FTC who you don't want to face. I think it speaks volumes about your strategic thinking that you didn't use the opportunity to eliminate obvious rival Malkon (though you managed it at F4 anyway). Instead, in the last potentially-predictable round, you took out Skrew, who was superficially weaker. I didn't see it at first, and was stunned and confused when you removed him. I thought it was a blunder, an unforced error - surely your partner in crime, the individual with the best resume of moves (aside from yourself) was the threat? I can't find the receipts, so it was likely in voice, but I think it was Haschel who pointed out that in a Summer-Malkon FTC, you would have had the distinct advantage because your games were so similar and intertwined that the discussion would be "who played it best." In that framework, you'd have been fighting from the high ground. In contrast, Skrew would have brought an entirely different strategy, played almost flawlessly, and the "Aggressive Obvious" might actually lose to "Aggressive Subtle". In the end it didn't matter, as you removed both late-game rivals with impunity.

All hail the queen!

Tris
- You seem content and realistic about your role in events and how things played out. You lost here at the Haschel elimination, as he said. If you'd been sitting here with Ari and Haschel, we'd have a fight on our hands. You are exceptionally talented, and I am looking forward to playing with you again as we both learn from our performances here and previous. Let's connect post-game and try to dissect things.

Congrats on the FTC showing!

Aristophanes
- Hey buddy. You know I love you, right? This is going to be more than a little blunt, and I wanted to establish that before I get going.

I have one core question, though with some variety in presentation:

What in the name of all things holy made you think you could beat Summer?


If there is a single argument for why you cannot win Survivor: Know Your Enemy, it is because you
did not know your enemy
. The mere fact that she is sitting next to you here speaks of a catastrophic error in judgment on your part. If you had asked twelve players at merge who the biggest single threat was, I'd bet you nine or ten would have named Summer. By the time I joined the jury, it was unanimous. Going into F6, she was the prohibitive favorite. At F5, when there was no immunity,
not a single jury member
thought it was going to be anyone but Summer going home. She was
that
obvious a threat. To hear that you not only didn't recognize her as a threat but actively worked to bring her to FTC...it's a critical misstep. Everything else you did (and you made a surprisingly comprehensive argument) pales in comparison to that single point of failure. I can get behind standing by allies even as they go down, yes. I can also get behind allies who are on similar footing making a "may the best person win in FTC" agreement. That's what Malkon and I had discussed. If you'd come in here saying that's what you thought was going on, I'd be a lot more sympathetic, but it's not the case.

So here are my questions:

What were Summer's strengths?
What were your strengths?
Where did you think she was weak?
Where you think you were strong?
At which point(s) did you feel she lacked agency?
At which point(s) did you feel you lacked agency?
What efforts did you each take to recover from errors?

I'm asking you these questions not in an effort to decide my vote - that's pretty much a foregone conclusion at this point. What I'm looking for is analysis so we can both improve. You were out of this when you took a pass on Haschel's goat brigade deal. Hell, you might have recovered even then if you'd lead the charge against Summer at 5 and either Malkon or Skrew at 4. Your best chance was indeed an FTC consisting of the goat brigade. You might even have won against Skrew or Malkon with the right late-game moves. I suspect that part of what led you to reject that lifeline was not wanting to be characterized that way. Well...sorry, but it happened.
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

Act 3, Scene 1 of
Julius Caesar
, by W. Shakespeare
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Post Post #154 (isolation #1) » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:44 pm

Post by Pine »

In post 150, Aristophanes wrote:
In post 148, Espeonage wrote:@tris and ari: Why was Malkon or Jess not eliminated over Skrew? Bc the moment Skrew went at that TC the game was over for you two.

Like I am only asking a question out of politeness. This vote has been locked since Awoo left the game. The tier list since awoo for ftc has been Jess > Malkon > Me > People who can't win if any of those three make it to ftc. Like if there was an idol play that would be fine. But voting out Skrew was game throwing and game throwing is not voteworthy in FTC.
That was all me and I've been trying to take proper credit for a while now.

Maybe I shouldn't be.

I voted skrew in an active effort to keep those two as I thought my loyalty was another aspect of my game that could be sold to the jury.

I was wrong.

So be it.
That's...kind of why you're losing here, friend. You're trying to take credit for Skrew's exit when you should be trying to excuse the strategic blunder. You'd have had a shot with me against Skrew, you don't against Jess.

Also big +1 to everything D3f had to say.
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

Act 3, Scene 1 of
Julius Caesar
, by W. Shakespeare
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Post Post #202 (isolation #2) » Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:33 am

Post by Pine »

And we spent the latter 75% of it justifying the twists thrown at us by mandatory participants >_>
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

Act 3, Scene 1 of
Julius Caesar
, by W. Shakespeare
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Post Post #208 (isolation #3) » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:39 am

Post by Pine »

We got lucky on that score - Haschel is an excellent creative partner, and often picked up on when I needed him to give me a low-content sentence so I could continue a complex thought as well as when we were kind of floundering and needed a change.
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

Act 3, Scene 1 of
Julius Caesar
, by W. Shakespeare
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Post Post #215 (isolation #4) » Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:29 pm

Post by Pine »

Hey all, anyone who is open to it, I just dumped some thoughts into my confessional, and I'm soliciting perspectives on a post-mortem of this game. I was thinking to just ask some targeted specs, but everyone's point of view is valuable.
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

Act 3, Scene 1 of
Julius Caesar
, by W. Shakespeare

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