Hydra Discussion Thread

For large social games such as Survivor where the primary mechanic is social interaction.
User avatar
Mist7676
Mist7676
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Mist7676
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2370
Joined: January 13, 2011

Post Post #130 (isolation #0) » Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:17 pm

Post by Mist7676 »

Ok, I also wanted to respond to this because I obviously have thoughts, but didn't know where to start.

First off, I do think playing into a hydra is a very self-selecting group; therefore, it's hard to talk about it being an advantage/disadvantage in a blanket statement. The people who opt into being in a hydra are probably the ones that feel they would benefit from being in a hydra and know they could do well with that setup. If you know you're not going to be someone that can compromise or deal with someone else's game, then a hydra just isn't an option for you. On average, hydras will do better because of this self-fulfilling prophecy. But to say in principle hydras will always be better isn't true.

For me, this hydra was fulfilling the need of wanting to play and enjoy the game while also not being entirely available to do so. At the beginning of the game, Noraa was busy with exams and would not have been able to play the game whatsoever. For me, I became unavailable around Rakshaka tribe and the beginning of merge. I checked in when I could, but for the most part Noraa was the only player at that time. Point blank, having access to a hydra as an option allowed us to play and I think that point is being forgotten in this advantage/disadvantage discussion. Hydras make playing Survivor (and other LSGs) much more accessible. If we're concerned about filling games and having to pull from spectators due to our games expanding, having that as an option is important. There's no way to minimize the time commitment within the game (other than reducing challenge timeframes) as it's always going to be a game that benefits players that are able to respond at all hours of the day to form connections. But we open access to more players by giving those who can't contribute 100% the option to play.

Now will I say being in a hydra benefitted us? Definitely. Sorry to depart from your points Noraa, but it was very clear to me that having someone I could essentially offload PM'ing to was a godsend for a player like me. I enjoy the social aspect of the game, and that's why I play these, but being able to straight up ignore the game during challenges and pop back in to communicate during tribals was extremely helpful. It reduced my burn out and made it easier to treat people like pieces to maneuver. I also can say us arguing was not a disadvantage. If anything, having someone to challenge your play and consider other alternatives is a huge boon in a game that quickly allows you to tunnel on one option. Having hours of discussions and disagreements forced us to put more time into the game and thus made our play better. Is it impossible for players on their own to do this? Players on their own can sit for hours and plan out various paths and situations. They can question their beliefs and reconsider their options and more time into the game. Again, a game like this will always benefit those that have more time to put into it. Hydras get two times that time and I think therein lies the issue.

I don't want to focus too much on what worked/what didn't in this game. It was one case and every player and player slot is different. We don't nerf challenge threats because they are a challenge threat. We don't try and find ways to take away someone's ability to form connections out of thin air, because some players will always just be better than other players. This game will find a way to deal with that either by taking them out when possible or handing them the win. The issue is you have to limit a hydra's time. The benefit was clear during the times we were both availabie. When Noraa and I would switch off with each other. She'd go to class and I'd log on and shoot off a few PMs. I'd have some work meetings, and she'd be done with class to reply back to people. She went to bed early and I was up pretty late keeping our chatline open. That alone was a gamechanger. In FTC, we'd draft responses simultaneously doubling our response speed allowing us to finish responding before the deadline. We sent them over to each other to confirm we were good with the content, but that's it. A quick review. If the goal of hydras is creating a more accessible game, then this time benefit is what should be nerfed. But I'll leave that to actual moderators to discuss :).
You Are Worth It
User avatar
Mist7676
Mist7676
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Mist7676
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2370
Joined: January 13, 2011

Post Post #131 (isolation #1) » Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:29 pm

Post by Mist7676 »

In post 124, Haschel Cedricson wrote:Unpopular opinion here, but imo hydras shouldn't have to swap back and forth on challenges. If they are gonna occupy one slot, treat them like one slot.

If that puts a target on them because it gives them an advantage in challenges then oh well, that's the breaks.
Agreed. I do think they should choose who's competing before hand and not go, "oh fuck a puzzle, vash you're up." But if a hydra wants to be a challenge threat, they should suffer the optics of it.
You Are Worth It

Return to “ORGs and Large Social Games”