Spectators

For large social games such as Survivor where the primary mechanic is social interaction.
McMenno
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Post Post #25  (ISO)  » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:33 pm

often there's a hybrid dead/spectator thread

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Post Post #26  (ISO)  » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:40 pm

In post 24, pablito wrote:I guess something I didn't think about much when I made the original post is that players are playing not just for themselves and the thrill of the game, but also because this is a public game. Survivor is on tv, and some players shill to the audience just as much as to themselves. Mafia games sometimes are spectated, but often not until afterwards - and dead threads are now more commonplace. Makes me wonder if any player who enters a large social game is not playing to the audience at all?

I mean I don't make any of the moves I make for specs but I like including them
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Post Post #27  (ISO)  » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:52 pm

pandering on mafiascum dot net? Surely not!
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Post Post #28  (ISO)  » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:55 pm

In post 2, Cephrir wrote:D) I'd post no matter what. I like talking about myself, and writing my thoughts out helps me think.

grumpy
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Post Post #29  (ISO)  » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:03 am

I'll only say that from a newbie perspective, having the specs post in my confessionals in Medevac was crucial and was the main reason why I had so much fun. Not only did they help me learn new things about my game and play styles, but they were also there as a resource to answer any questions I had (since us newbies have a lot of stupid questions). Not allowing specs to comment would be a big mistake

CuddlyCaucasian
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Post Post #30  (ISO)  » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:22 am

In Conclave, I had a terrible confessional because I had no idea what to talk about. Even reading it post-game I have no idea what I was thinking through most of the game because I barely talked about anything, and I won that game lmao. I don't think I'm a good example to go off of though, because in my past couple games I've gone in with the mindset of trying to entertain the mods and spectators (and myself) over trying to win at all costs. I wasn't doing things I thought would make me lose just for fun, but if I didn't know which was the better strategic play, I did what I thought would be funnier...I think that was 80% of why I wanted to vote out Android 18. What I'm saying is that without spectators following along I get really bored and usually quit, but that's just me.
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Post Post #31  (ISO)  » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:30 am

I haven't really seen much discussion about the costs/drawbacks of spectators despite the question being asked a couple of times, so I'll try to address that...

In my mind, the potential for spectators to (unintentionally) influence the game by posting in confessionals is too great to ignore. Using grumpy's post above as an example... should grumpy have had the ability to have people outside the game comment on his game and play style while the game was ongoing? You don't get that on the actual show, and you can make the argument that you shouldn't get that here either.

I know in Medevac I used the spectators interaction to keep me going at points where I wanted to just give up and not fight my elimination or simply quit outright when I was particularly busy IRL... sure, you can say that my receiving motivation from specs benefited the game, but is it true to Survivor? I don't think so.

This is why I very rarely posted in player confessionals in LoL despite being a very active spec... I didn't want to accidentally influence someone's game based on what I thought was an innocent post.

There's a reason why outsiders aren't allowed to post in Mafia games or privately communicate with living players (or even post in dead threads).
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Post Post #32  (ISO)  » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:43 am

you know confessionals on the show are the producers asking the survivors questions/giving them pep talks right
hipflop

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Post Post #33  (ISO)  » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:46 am

In post 31, racefan12 wrote:(or even post in dead threads).

also this happens too
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CuddlyCaucasian
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Post Post #34  (ISO)  » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:49 pm

Also to be fair, the people talking to players while they're talking in confessional on the real show are trying to create the most entertaining show possible, and ask far more leading questions than any spectators do
"CC is very [whatever the equivalent of photogenic as it applies to videos]" - racefan12
"CC is an objectively attractive person." - Crazy
"You look like a happy version of Trent Reznor." - LicketyQuickety
"Do you practice sounding like you're high all the time?" - xofelf

pablito
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Post Post #35  (ISO)  » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:02 pm

An additional potential drawback is when players begin to compare the quality of confessional replies from specs or noticing a different interest level from non regular specs which can tip off an interesting play or tribal.

hiplop
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Post Post #36  (ISO)  » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:03 pm

I feel like if youre capable of that level of social awareness from spectators you deserve whatever benefit you get from it. In my experience any time I've seen someone say something like that they have completely misjudged the situation and are going to do something to shoot themselves in the foot
hipflop

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Post Post #37  (ISO)  » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:37 pm

yeah i remember everyone looking at aria's vote in the merge episode of school and she was like "omg i'm going home they're all looking at my vote" when she was just alphabetically the first and first to vote lol.

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Post Post #38  (ISO)  » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:51 pm

Hermoine did something to that effect a few times as well (misplayed idol, maybe?)
hipflop

CuddlyCaucasian
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Post Post #39  (ISO)  » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:55 pm

If you read into what the spectators are doing as a player, history shows you're probably wrong so don't bother
"CC is very [whatever the equivalent of photogenic as it applies to videos]" - racefan12
"CC is an objectively attractive person." - Crazy
"You look like a happy version of Trent Reznor." - LicketyQuickety
"Do you practice sounding like you're high all the time?" - xofelf

Vijarada
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Post Post #40  (ISO)  » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:57 pm

yeah as a spec i just read whoever has posted the most recently no exceptions pretty much. just be proud you're a more updating confessionalist, i suppose.

pablito
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Post Post #41  (ISO)  » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:37 pm

Thoughts on specs spreading the love so that no confessional is ignored? Ie: staking ground on who you as a spec will always check each time you log in (and other specs doing the same but for others)

animorpherv1
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Post Post #42  (ISO)  » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:51 pm

In post 41, pablito wrote:Thoughts on specs spreading the love so that no confessional is ignored? Ie: staking ground on who you as a spec will always check each time you log in (and other specs doing the same but for others)


Bad. Just because you check in on them does not mean that they will be posting content that you want to respond to (some people just confessionalize differently). Also, flaking happens.
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Post Post #43  (ISO)  » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:12 am

As a spec I check on everyone, there usually isn't so much in confessionals that it's hard to do that.
I think I'm a bit unusual in that regard though. >.> Most people get excited at the start and taper off while I'm the other way around.
I HATE YOU SO MUCH PLEASE GO JUMP INTO A FREEZING LAKE - Mr. Freeze
Plan B: it serves you right if i (hug) you in the face though, right?
The next step of my idol clue hunt is showing up at BRO's hometown and asking his parents where he played soccer - Portland

xofelf
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Post Post #44  (ISO)  » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:16 am

A) how did spectating start here in the first place?
That's a really good question. I have played a few games that didn't have that kind of thing, but it was such a very long time ago. I've seen far more benefits to specs than downsides.

B) what specific roles do mods see for the spectators?
They help keep players engaged and motivated for the game. Also, having extra eyes is super helpful. I rely on spectators because often things can be missed if I'm the only person reading things. They've helped to point out mistakes in results or challenge posts. They are good to point out when there are situations going on which may need a closer eye. These games are huge and as much as you try to read everything, it's not completely possible to do that. And having active spectators makes that be less of a problem. They're also a resource for the mods because the mods have someone they can talk to about what is going on with whom and what they're excited about and can't wait to see what players do. And they can get feedback on their moderation from a less biased perspective. It motivates the mods to keep going as long as specs are being particularly good that game anyways. There is the downside of sometimes specs can be particularly toxic and make it so that mods have a harder time wanting to keep modding their games when there's no appreciation or positive feedback given.

C) what roles have spectators believe they have filled in games before?
I know I've judged challenges as a spectator, and a few times I've stepped up to help run challenges that needed a mod to start. But I've played the part of being extra eyes for mods. And I've done the motivation cheerleader role for both players and mods. Just having a voice telling you that they are excited to see what you're doing and cheering for you can make everything better. Can make the particularly bad game days that much better. Because these games are often very taxing and just having kind voices makes giving up less likely.

D) as a player, how likely would you post your thoughts without seeing posts from spectators?
This is my biggest problem. If I don't have active spectator/mod interaction, I can't be assed to confessionalize. There's just way too much to get out there without some sort of direction of what to put down. And spectator questions and posts have always helped. My confessionals end up being a lot less updated or well put together without specs. Having banter with specs is also very motivating and enjoyable. Sometimes you may not get to questions, but having them is a huge help. Helps to organize, which for me anyways, is a huge problem. I'm extremely scatterbrained and when there's just so much it's not something I can just pick one thing and go with, I need the starting point. Questions that aren't vague but ask about specific things help so much too. Having an incentive to post, ala Hogwarts/LoL also is helpful for posting, but without specs, it feels hollow and like talking to a wall. Feedback is so vital.
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mykonian
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Post Post #45  (ISO)  » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:54 pm

cool thread!
Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.

Bellaphant
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Post Post #46  (ISO)  » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:56 pm

Xof's post is super on point. A spec 'on your side' (read, just the kind of pep talk thing hippy mentioned) is also really valuable. I do think there is some issues on leading questions, but mods are just as likely to do that as specs.

Anything that increases your participation as a player has to be a good thing, especially when you are new. Having TAS around in botb was my favourite thing and did change the game for me a lot, even just having her around in the chatzy and such...sensible, but non guidey questions in my confessional.

In my dream world, I'd love to run like... a newbie survivor with a dedicated spec/experienced person, kinda like a hydra but not really, they'd be there to support and ask questions and explain basic things (ties, rocks, how to use imugr?). It'd make me super happy and perhaps give newbies a reason to keep engaged and stop the occasional pattern of newbie pre merge boots.

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Post Post #47  (ISO)  » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:51 pm

In post 46, Bellaphant wrote:stop the occasional pattern of newbie pre merge boots.


well...

that's not how the game works!
Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.

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