New Player Feedback Methodology

For large social games such as Survivor where the primary mechanic is social interaction.
Aurathebirb
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Post Post #25  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:25 am

There's always going to be an issue with newbies even if they know the game of survivor well. I mean its pretty intimidating when you come into a community of people that's been well established already. Even if people don't know who each other are off the bat, they still have a good understanding of how people are going to interact. They also know what the meta of the site is like. Things which are well received on one site might not be on another site. And if you do end up doing something wrong, nobody is going to tell you during the game since its much easier to just accept an easy boot.

So its a bit confusing when you first join and you're trying to figure out what to say that isn't going to lead to your immediate elimination. I mean you can read previous games and try to figure things out, but I've found that to be difficult given how non linear the boards are. Plus you don't have access to PMs, which is probably the most difficult part of the game.

One thing that I've also noticed is that some players seem to "know" things about the game that haven't been officially announced; like the number of jurors, whether its going to be 2 or 3 FTC, when switches are going to happen and how often they might happen.

I don't think a hydra game with newbies and veterans would be all that great personally. Not a lot of newbies are going to be crazy about having someone walk them through the game, especially given how long they can go on for. Would probably end up with a lot of veterans just controlling the hydra, which wouldn't be very beneficial. Newbie BvW sounds more interesting, but singling out the newbies like that is something I could see going wrong.

Most of the issues that prevent newbies from staying are just inherent with Survivor and not really anything that can be blamed on one person in particular. If you get eliminated early, you gotta wait 2 months for the next one. So I think having non-survivor type games around on the board is what really gives people a reason to stay long enough for a second shot.

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Post Post #26  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:21 am

In post 16, Aristophanes wrote:Since the games are on a different platform, I assume there isn't really a way for newbies to read a game


Absolutely there is: all past games are public. Links to some haven't been posted, and some are hidden. But googling say "zetaboards survivor hogwarts" will get you to them mostly. Reading past games is pretty much the best way not to be a scrub imo! Although yeah, confusing, esp when little spec presence and confused confessionals.

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Post Post #27  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:08 am

Maybe we should have a link directly to Survivor: One World? Since the whole thing was open on the forum it's the only game you can read start to finish.
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Post Post #28  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:51 am

We 10000% need to compile all of the links somewhere that is easily accessible. If we could make the Survivor page on the Wiki have links to both the game’s MS thread and its board that would be ideal.

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Post Post #29  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:10 am

Mushroom Kingdom: http/z15.invisionfree.com/Survivor_Mushroom/index.php?act=idx
Destiny Islands: http://z13.invisionfree.com/Destiny_I/index.php?
Seafoam: http://z13.invisionfree.com/Seafoam_Islands/index.php?
All Stars: http://z13.invisionfree.com/Survivor_Al ... owforum=52
Middle Earth: http://w11.zetaboards.com/Survivor_MiddleEarth/index/
Sky Pillar: http://z13.invisionfree.com/Sky_Pillar/index.php
Mass Effect: http://z13.invisionfree.com/Mass_Effect ... hp?act=idx
Arkham Asylum: http://w11.zetaboards.com/Arkham_Asylum/index/
Greece: http://z13.invisionfree.com/Survivor_Greece/index.php
Game of Thrones: http://s13.zetaboards.com/GoT_Survivor/index/
Season Finale: http://w11.zetaboards.com/SurvivorSeasonFinale/index/
Hogwarts: http://w11.zetaboards.com/Survivor_Hogwarts/index/
Conclave: http://w11.zetaboards.com/Conclave/index/
Doctor Who: http://w11.zetaboards.com/Doctor_Who_Survivor/index/
Hyrule: http://s15.zetaboards.com/Hyrule_Survivor/index/
Names Are Hard: http://s15.zetaboards.com/Survivor_NAH/index/
Expect the Unexpected: http://s15.zetaboards.com/SurvivorBigBrother/index/
Arkham City: http://w11.zetaboards.com/Arkham_City/index/
Pretty Super Vanilla: http://s15.zetaboards.com/survivor_psv/index/
Battle of the Bands: http://s15.zetaboards.com/Battle_of_the_Bands/index/
Eon: http://s15.zetaboards.com/Survivor_Eon/index/
#2016: http://s15.zetaboards.com/survivor_2016/index/
League of Legends: http://s15.zetaboards.com/Survivor_LoL/index/
Magic Kingdom: http://s15.zetaboards.com/Magic_Kingdom/index/
DragonBall Z Abridged: http://s15.zetaboards.com/DeathNote/index/
Medevac: http://s15.zetaboards.com/survivormedevac/index/
Nexus: http://s15.zetaboards.com/Survivor_Nexus/index/
School: http://s15.zetaboards.com/School_Survivor/index/
MLS: http://s15.zetaboards.com/Survivor_MLS/index/
One World: http://s15.zetaboards.com/Survivor_One_World/index/
Civilisation: http://s15.zetaboards.com/SurvivorCivilization/index/

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Post Post #30  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:00 am

In post 20, BROseidon wrote:I ended Civivor with 767 PMs exchanged with Theo and that was a "low" number for fellow finalist that I was close allies with basically the whole game.


git gud me and Hannibal had well over 600 across 3 TC's and a merge round
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Post Post #31  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:38 am

In post 5, BROseidon wrote:mentor/mentee sort of thing where you have say 16 players and 16 "mentors" that each just have their own PT where they chill with their newbie partner to give advice (not to mention shared access to the confessional space)

this sounds pretty cool
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Post Post #32  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:42 am

i think a newbie/vet bvw is going to result in the newbies going down in flames (much like summertime nearly was)
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Post Post #33  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:46 am

imo a newbie doesn't want to be on a tribe of newbies. that means their likely potential allies are probably going to be weaker players, which leaves them with minimal control later in the game. it's no coincidence that newbies can't win irl survivor FvF.
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Post Post #34  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:48 am

^^^^^^^
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Post Post #35  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:59 am

In post 24, Realeo wrote:
In post 19, BROseidon wrote:Generally speaking a good heuristic is "if I have a pm sitting in my inbox and real life isn't in the way, I should respond to it now."


Hmm. I think I'm quite responsive. I have my laptop on pretty much all the time?

Maybe time zone issue? I usually log off from midnight to 9 am (for sleeping reason. I HAVE LIFE) which translates to noon to 9 pm on "American time" which is usually the peak time?


Yeah time zones make it harder for sure. That said, I would say peak time is like 9pm-1am eastern, since that's after west coast people are home

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Post Post #36  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:00 pm

In post 30, Iprobablysuck wrote:
In post 20, BROseidon wrote:I ended Civivor with 767 PMs exchanged with Theo and that was a "low" number for fellow finalist that I was close allies with basically the whole game.


git gud me and Hannibal had well over 600 across 3 TC's and a merge round


Tbf I won so I'm not complaining :)

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Post Post #37  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:41 pm

In post 32, Cephrir wrote:i think a newbie/vet bvw is going to result in the newbies going down in flames (much like summertime nearly was)


I've seen this setup done twice: once, the F3 was 3 newbies; the second time the F3 was 2 mentors and a newbie and a mentor won.

But anyway this is ancillary to the conversation, I will take this idea along with my "everyone makes an alias Skype/Discord account because PMs lead to walls" idea to my corner of "games Xalxe will probably never run on his own."
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Post Post #38  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:45 pm

wait would i be considered new or vet since i've played 2

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Post Post #39  (ISO)  » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:35 pm

You’re in that middle ground where if there was a Fans vs. Favorites game you’d either be a Fan or they’d just cut you because it’s too hard to tell :P

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Post Post #40  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:27 am

i hope i get cut because all fans vs. favorites seasons suck

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Post Post #41  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:32 am

In post 40, Shrek wrote:i hope i get cut because all fans vs. favorites seasons suck


Now now Katie, I definitely would put you as a favorite, you were a huge player in One World

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Post Post #42  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:37 am

we can't have a girls alliance because everyone sucks

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Post Post #43  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:41 pm

In post 42, Shrek wrote:we can't have a girls alliance because everyone sucks

Thanks Monica
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Post Post #44  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:21 pm

In post 0, pablito wrote:My intention is for this discussion and thread to not be the place for us as a community (and us as mostly veterans) to theorize and discuss why the rookies are or aren't sticking around. So please do not answer the questions in the previous paragraph unless you are a New Player.
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Post Post #45  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:31 pm

In post 40, Shrek wrote:i hope i get cut because all fans vs. favorites seasons suck

The one onsite...only sucked a little bit!

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Post Post #46  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:51 pm

bippy sent me this:

heya pabs, glad to contribute some feedback. i'd never played an anonymous game or a game that played out over the forums/PMs before, or a game in this community, so yah ive been a noob here, but ill insert the caveat that id played other games before

that said: talking over PMs and knowing how much to talk felt pretty natural. challenges were fun. i just had a good time. i liked the confessional particularly (as im sure was apparent) thanks to basically being a performative attention seeker and getting positive feedback from specs. :P not everyone is like me but id wager that spec banter or generic spec "we're rooting for you!" that someone goes and posts in every person's confessional is one of the biggest things for encouraging a new player.

maybe new players could have an "Ask the specs!" thread stickied by default in their confess forum where any time they have a mechanic type question or general question about what they should be doing they could put it there and a mod or any of the specs can show up with an answer. so they woudlnt feel like they were imposing or asking a stupid question, but would feel invited to share things they didnt know about. and i dont mean questions about what moves to make but any questions they have as a new person: "do i need to talk to everyone in my tribe"; "where do i vote"; idk whatever, i remember asking one time "wtf is v/la?" and if this also encourages the new player to interact in their confess forum, again, i think thats one of the keys to making noobs wanna play again

i will say that i did get a bit surprised by how twisty school was in terms of cast size, swaps, double tribe voting, but i was able to roll with that at least internally ("oh, so this is how it's gonna be, ok, got it, np") even if my game was actually falling apart haha. maybe for some new players a heads up on the twist level of a season, if like regular survivor is a 4 out of 10 in twists, australian survivor maybe like a 5.5, and then say they is a 7.

so like maybe there could be some list of common differences (this might already exist somewhere) between the typical season people might have watched on tv and what happens on ms. also i think newbs should haveto play the borubdur challenge.
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Post Post #47  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:21 am

Okay so here's my (hopefully long and thought out) post about everything and I'm pretty sure I've already talked about this prior, but happy to repeat i

Being a newbie in a game....is daunting. It's like being the new kid at a new school. You're entering a game where there's already an established community, where there's already an established meta, where people have inside jokes, and know all the little forum tricks to better navigate the site. Its a challenging task to combat all of this, and frankly, kinda scary. So much so that you may even blindside your closest ally because of it lol. And I know that if I didn't have CC sleeping next to me, I would've been at a total loss.

The problem for newbies lies in the fact that the material to help newbies is completely inaccessible. Sure, there's the "Newbie Guide," but who is really going to read through hundreds of posts of redundant "veteran" drama/theorization/crap. No one has time to sift through all of that. And sure, there's the link to all of the past games, but try being a newbie and clicking one of those links. You have no idea what to look for, nor know even how to look for it once you figure that out. It's at a point now where the best advice to newbies is to just "wing it and be sociable," but that's not enough in my opinion.

A separate page dedicated SOLELY for newbies would help tremendously. And in this thread, there would be a number of invaluable topics.
1) A general outline that describes the normal/typical survivor game and maybe some examples of past twists so that newbies know (somewhat) what to expect
2) A page that describes the FUNCTIONALITY of the zeta board threads. Just showing how to write a PM, how to navigate the page, how to post memes (still don't know how to do that), how to check if someone's online, would all really help newbies be part of the community
3) Maybe a page that keeps an up-to-date list of inside jokes/meta?
4) A page showing past Great Moves and Past Blunders by players, highlighting the good and and the bad

The most importantly thing though is the first the last numbers, because that insight for newbies is so important. If these guides were accompanied by hyperlinks that show exactly what is being described (like in the Ban/Suspended forum), that would be ideal.

I also agree with bippy to add a permanent Ask The Specs thread in all newbie games. The amount of questions newbies have is.....a lot and if they go by unanswered, it really deters them from being engaged. I know in my first game, I had sooooo many questions and thank god the specs in that game were as active as they were. Even my second time around I dedicated a thread specifically for spec/mod questions.....so maybe this should be universal across the board?

Anyway those are my thoughts :P

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Post Post #48  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:27 am

In post 25, Aurathebirb wrote:One thing that I've also noticed is that some players seem to "know" things about the game that haven't been officially announced; like the number of jurors, whether its going to be 2 or 3 FTC, when switches are going to happen and how often they might happen.



Hopefully with these guides, it would solve this issue so that everyone is on the same playing field.

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Post Post #49  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:31 am

In post 48, grumpy wrote:
In post 25, Aurathebirb wrote:One thing that I've also noticed is that some players seem to "know" things about the game that haven't been officially announced; like the number of jurors, whether its going to be 2 or 3 FTC, when switches are going to happen and how often they might happen.



Hopefully with these guides, it would solve this issue so that everyone is on the same playing field.

I think Aura was going a bit more for the "outguess the mod" that gets played when it comes to merge and FTC timing, and swaps. It's a bit of an acquired skill, honestly, I just know when to expect things because I've been through the ringer that is onsite Survivor some absurd number of times. The one thing we can emphasize even more than we already are is to read past games.

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