State of the Queue 2018

For large social games such as Survivor where the primary mechanic is social interaction.
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Post Post #100  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:19 am

if only we could get AI to play Go..... to the polls!!!!
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Post Post #101  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:58 pm

In post 58, xRECKONERx wrote:I've been wondering if open setups would be a bad thing to have? Rerun old setups, etc. Zor's puttin that idea to the test.



This is more what I meant - is there a market for reruns? Even if numbers were slightly different to change up tribe dynamics. Because honestly we all know about when to expect a merge, etc.

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Post Post #102  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:59 pm

itd have to be a certain kinda game, but id be okay with reruns. Something like Ned's wouldn't work because of the way we designed it
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Post Post #103  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:11 pm

I'm not sure if you'd want a 100% rerun where everyone can guess what order the challenges are coming up and can factor that into their voting decisions. But I think a moderator taking the exact structure of a game and picking previous challenges from a mixture of games would be perfectly fine.

I know when I mod a game I feel like I have to try for a mix of brand new challenges, classic challenges, and variations on old challenges, but there's absolutely no reason that has to happen. If a mod did nothing but take their favorite challenges from old games it would still be perfectly fine.
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Post Post #104  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:15 pm

18 Jigsaw puzzle challenges
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Post Post #105  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:52 pm

In post 104, Shadoweh wrote:18 Jigsaw puzzle challenges


18 jigsong puzzle challenges. my personal hell.
.

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Post Post #106  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:57 pm

Jigsong is ugh
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Post Post #107  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:01 pm

In post 103, Haschel Cedricson wrote:I'm not sure if you'd want a 100% rerun where everyone can guess what order the challenges are coming up and can factor that into their voting decisions. But I think a moderator taking the exact structure of a game and picking previous challenges from a mixture of games would be perfectly fine.

this is exactly what interests me about it: knowing what challenges are coming up.
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Post Post #108  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:11 pm

I'm worried it would lead to things like "I know Flappy Bird is coming up and I think this guy might be Klick; let's vote him out now but pretend it's for unrelated reasons so it doesn't look like we're breaking the ID rules."
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Post Post #109  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:31 pm

I feel like that's a good thing. It's new. It puts a real reason in the game to vote out challenge threats
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Post Post #110  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:40 pm

Hmm. I understand that and don't necessarily disagree. It also provides incentive to keep challenge beasts in the pre-merge stage.

The tacit encouragment of playing to IDs is a problem, though.
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Post Post #111  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:44 pm

Technically that's an encouragement for people to STOP BEING SO OBVIOUS ABOUT YOUR IDS PEOPLE
I HATE YOU SO MUCH PLEASE GO JUMP INTO A FREEZING LAKE - Mr. Freeze
Plan B: it serves you right if i (hug) you in the face though, right?
I love it when people talk about my brutal murder in front of me, it's actually my secret fetish - Sangmin

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Post Post #112  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:00 pm

Yes Shadoweh, exactly. If that's the setup and it's known, the impetus is on the players to hide their IDs. That prevents alliances being formed based on IDs which is much more of a problem than people being targeted for challenge strength which can already happen regardless of if future challenges are known.

I would love an open setup/replayed game personally. I actually would like a non-anonymous game with the exact same challenges, swaps, and cast as the original game, though obviously it would be unfair and untenable. It would be a fun experiment though to see how things were different after a second run with all or most variables the same.

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Post Post #113  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:29 pm

In post 104, Shadoweh wrote:18 Jigsaw puzzle challenges

who the hell would do that?

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Post Post #114  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:55 pm

Bro did it
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Post Post #115  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:38 pm

Anyone that wants me to actually get deep into a game would :)
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Post Post #116  (ISO)  » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:51 pm

In post 114, hiplop wrote:Bro did it


Technically it was BPC but yah

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Post Post #117  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:25 am

In post 111, Shadoweh wrote:Technically that's an encouragement for people to STOP BEING SO OBVIOUS ABOUT YOUR IDS PEOPLE


I'm sorry I can't make enough fake jobs that let me post in the middle of the USA night. ;)

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Post Post #118  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:54 am

College student always works
Life is always what it seems.

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Post Post #119  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:27 am

Looking at the current discussion in the game classification thread:

I think something mods should consider a bit more is whether or not the mechanics and twists they are injecting into their games are fun for the players. It's certainly fun for mods to load their games with mechanics and complexity and and cackle evilly as players have to meander through them. But in the end the mods are a small group of people, whereas 16-30 players signed up to this game to have fun (and possibly many more applied but didn't get accepted). I know that should I ever design a game I want to consider "Is this thing torture or a creative interesting bit?" when I'm designing all aspects of the game--structure, twists, and challenges.
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Post Post #120  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:21 pm

so uh

I know people have had issues with mods doing questionable things in their games recently. And making sure mods don't do anything that will piss players off is a good thing. But I think we're going a little too hard on the other extreme at the moment.
We've got a mod deficit. It's not that we don't have any mods, it's that these mods aren't completing their games in a time that matches player demand. I would reckon that many of these mods just aren't willing to go through the long, winding steps required to get a game they're happy with through the queue in such a short time. Adding more and more hoops for mods to jump through is only going to make that problem worse.

Quality in games is good. We're pretty well-known for having high-quality LSGs, and it's a good idea to try and keep that rep. But lower game quality is a problem that can be fixed with slight adjustments to the way the Queue works. We already have LSG mods looking over each game, it's easy enough to just get them to confirm the balance and twistiness of a game. We don't want to overdo it and have an unnecessarily intricate solution that creates an even bigger problem in mod supply.


I'd like to ask some upcoming mods with games in production: what are some of the issues that are stopping your game(s) from being ready sooner? Lack of co-mods, life issues, difficulty getting through the Queue with how it's structured, etc. We should be working toward fixing this problem, so it would be nice to know what's causing it.

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Post Post #121  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:22 pm

How would the proposed solution create more work on the mods?
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Post Post #122  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:36 pm

In post 121, xRECKONERx wrote:How would the proposed solution create more work on the mods?
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Post Post #123  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:09 pm

The proposed solution being submitting certain aspects of your game to the LSG mods for ranking in how twisty they are? In reality, it doesn't create much more work at all for mods. But when mods have to send their games to the LSG mods and have them look at every little detail of the game before they can progress through the queue, that takes extra time and is another obstacle in the way of finally getting a game in the queue.

I think the game review thing is a smaller issue on top of a larger underlying problem. Mods have to go through a lot before they can even think about their game actually running. Using my own game as an example, had NAH been run under today's ruleset, I'm not sure it would have ever made it through the queue. Not because it wouldn't be good enough to run, but because the task of getting it through would have looked so daunting that I probably would have told CC I wasn't interested from the start. And I know that the current process has also stopped me and others from getting a few other game ideas off the ground, whether it be because I couldn't find co-mods (with the required experience) or because the idea of getting a game through the Queue seemed too arduous to accomplish.

The biggest issue, in my opinion, is the co-mod requirement. Look at the current list of games that need co-mods:
Spoiler:
Survivor of the Fittest
Moderators: Save The Dragons, PrivateI
Game Type: Anonymous
Players: 16
Design Status: Early design

Survivor: Naruto
Moderators: hiplop, SummerInWonderland
Game Type: Anonymous
Players: 18
Design Status: Early design.

Survivor: Soap Operas
Moderators: BROseidon
Game Type: Anonymous
Players: ??
Design Status: Early design.

Survivor: Shonen Rumble
Moderators: BROseidon, Aeronaut
Game Type: Anonymous
Players: 32
Design Status: Early design

Aristocratic Ladies of the English Countryside
Moderators: xRECKONERx, zoraster
Game Type: ?
Players: ?
Design Status: Early design

Dance's Big Brother
Moderators: JustDanceWorld, PrivateI
Game Type: Non-Anonymous
Players: 14
Design Status: Mostly complete, just needs comods


Almost all of these teams are two-person teams just looking for a third for their idea. And I'd also argue that almost all of these teams would be basically fine to run as two-person teams, if we're being honest.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't necessarily agree with how stringent the modding requirements have become and some of our mod supply issues would be resolved if we cut back a little on that. Mod supply was never a problem until harsher mod requirements became the standard.

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Post Post #124  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:12 pm

What do you interpret as being different for the review under the new ruleset?

Like, it's essentially the exact same process. The LSG listmods will just have better vocabulary to communicate with potential players.
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