Survivor: Expect the Expected (Game Over)

For large social games such as Survivor where the primary mechanic is social interaction.
zoraster
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Post Post #0  (ISO)  » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:03 pm

Survivor: Expect the Expected

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28 Days. 16 players. 1 Survivor

Brought to you by: Zoraster, PrivateI and Radja


Setup
  • Anonymous
  • 16 players start and are divided into 2 tribes
  • Card based mechanic used for pretty much all challenges.
  • Completely Open setup
  • Merge occurs with 10 remaining, unless Tribal Dominance is triggered.
  • Final 3 with a big game played at Final 4.
  • Jury of 6.
  • Fan Favorite Mechanic
  • One hidden idol (no pre-merge idol)
  • Character Theme is Reality TV Stars

Deadlines
Cast Application Deadline: February 9th at Noon EST. However, the earlier the application, the higher the likelihood as we can slot people into the cast.
Cast Announcement: by February 12th.
Game Day Start Announcement: by February 12th
Spectator and Replacement Application Deadline: February 15th.

Game Start Date
Players are asked to choose their best start date in an effort to make sure we have the maximum number of players who can be on at the right time. The game will start on a day between Thur, February 15th to Monday, February 20th.

Description
This game is a NO TWIST game of Survivor in the sense that all mechanics are known ahead of time. The game is designed to primarily focus on the social game, but the immunity challenge mechanic is still important to understand. The "twistiest" element is a potential Fan Favorite element that is fully explained.

In fact, Spectators in this game will be very important as they play an actual role in the winner!

I would HIGHLY recommend reading through the rules before signing up for this game. This is a very different game than most survivor games run.

I am happy to answer any questions via PM or Discord.

(Currently Only Taking Spectators)
Please note that this game is relatively small at 16 players, so many deserving players will not get a chance to play.

Spoiler: Game Rules. Please note that Official Rules are found on the Zetaboard. These are the initial rules but may have been changed
Starting Cards
Every player in the game starts with the following 40 cards:
  • 1 - 20
  • 1 - 15
  • 1 - 12
  • 2 - 10s
  • 2 - 9s
  • 2 - 8s
  • 3 - 7s
  • 3 - 6s
  • 5 - 5s
  • 6 - 4s
  • 6 - 3s
  • 4 - 2s
  • 3 - 1s
  • 1 - negative 5

Setup
  • Anonymous
  • 16 players start and are divided into 2 tribes
  • Merge occurs with 10 remaining, unless Tribal Dominance is triggered.
  • Final 3 with a big game played at Final 4.
  • Jury of 6.
  • Fan Favorite Mechanic
  • One hidden idol (no pre-merge idol)
  • Character Theme is Reality TV Stars

Tribe Selection
Casting will be done by the co-mods, but tribe selection will be done by MS join date. The oldest in Tribe 1, the second oldest in Tribe 2, etc. Players will not know who is who among that and should not ask each other for join dates, etc.


Tribe Immunity Challenges
  1. All Tribal Immunity challenges work the same
  2. Every player submits to the moderator a PUBLIC card and a SECRET card
  3. Once everyone submits, the moderator will post every player's public card and who played it. The moderator will also post the secret cards played but not who played them
  4. The tribe with the higher average total (both secret and public) will win immunity.
  5. Tie breaker order: (1) the tribe that played the highest OVERALL card wins, (2) the tribe that played the highest SECRET card wins, (3) the tribe that played the most of the highest card wins, (4) random among still tied players

Tribal Councils, both pre and post merge
The losing tribe will vote off one member according to a normal vote. See tie breaker.

Individual Immunity Challenge
  1. Every player plays at least 1 card and up to 3 cards.
  2. The moderator does not reveal what cards were played, only the totals.
  3. The player with the highest total wins immunity.
  4. Tie breaker order: (1) the HIGHEST card played (e.g. one player plays a 15 and a 3, another plays two 9s. The player who played the 15 wins), (2) the player who played the most of the highest card wins, (3) the player who played the most cards wins, (4) random among still tied players

Tribal Voting Off Tie Breaker
If there is a tie, there will be a weighted vote count according to the previous challenge. Every "point" that a player submitted (including secret) will count as a vote for the player voted. For example, if I submitted a 10 and a 5 and voted for Samantha, Samantha would have 15 votes against her in the event of a tie. In the event of a tie after this, rocks are drawn for all non-immune, non-voted players.

Final Four Game (final Elimination Challenge)
  1. Everyone takes their remaining cards. At the same time (via submission to mod) everyone plays their first card. The winner gets the number of points that the others had (e.g. A plays a 10, B plays a 5, C plays a 3, D plays a negative 5… A gets 5+3-5 points).
  2. This is done until there are no remaining cards. If a player is out of cards, they cannot receive any more points and the winner of each hand after this is awarded two extra points per person who is “out” of cards.
  3. There can be no communication or coordination once the challenge starts.
  4. The two people with the highest totals get in. The first place person chooses among the remaining two to bring to the Final 3.

Final 3
  1. The jury is made up of six players (4th-9th place finishers)
  2. Jury gets one day to question the Final 3 and one day to cast a vote.
  3. In the event of a 3-3 tie, the unvoted player will cast the deciding vote
  4. In the event of a 2-2-2 tie, the fan favorite (assuming there is one still present) will be the winner.
  5. If there is no fan favorite (either because the mechanic isn't in operation or the fan favorite was not brought to the Final 3), the winner of the Final 4 game is the winner.

Fan Favorite Bonus
  1. Spectators will communally vote to give one person a bonus in the Final 4 game. So use those confessionals!
  2. Spectators will NOT include the moderators or other players
  3. The fan favorite will receive their choice of a 1 or an 8 card to play in the Final 4 challenge.
  4. The Fan Favorite Bonus will only occur if there are at least 7 voting Spectators.
  5. Please note that spectators will NOT be able to ask questions directly of players in their confessionals, but will get a chance to ask questions to tribes via the mod.
  6. Spectators may enter up at any point pre-merge
  7. The Fan Favorite will NOT be announced except to the winner. Remember that there are only 2 8s and 3 1s in the game!

Hidden Idol Challenge
  1. On the merge, Zoraster will enter a phrase about immunity idols (it won’t include the words immunity or idols in it) somewhere in his Mafiascum post history. The first person to link me directly to the post gets the idol. It will then be removed from my post history. Anyone who messaged me with the post but before I can edit out the mention will receive a message of “you saw X take the idol” where X is the person who took it.
  2. The idol can be played at any time up until the final elimination challenge (but not including the final elimination challenge).
  3. The idol must be played at the same time votes are cast (privately to the mod, who will announce who played it)
  4. The idol can be given to someone else by informing the moderator that you’ve given it away.
  5. On being played, all votes on the player who played the idol are neutralized and the next higher vote getter is voted off.

Tribal Domination
If one tribe ever has 4 or more players than the other (e.g. 8 vs. 4), the tribes will merge.

SCHEDULE
Day 1: Meet your tribe! First tribal immunity challenge
Day 2: Tribal council #1 (15 remain)
Day 3: Second immunity challenge
Day 4: Tribal council #2 (14)
Day 5: Third immunity challenge
Day 6: Tribal council #3 (13)
Day 7: Fourth immunity challenge
Day 8: Tribal council #4 (12)
Day 9: Fifth immunity challenge
Day 10: Tribal council #5 (11)
Day 11: Final group immunity challenge
Day 12: Tribal council #6 (10)
Day 13: Tribes Merge! Get a day off!
Day 14: First individual challenge
Day 15: Tribal council #8 (9 remain)
Day 16: Second individual challenge
Day 17: Tribal council #9 (8)
Day 18: Third individual challenge
Day 19: Tribal council #10 (7)
Day 20: Fourth individual challenge
Day 21: Tribal council #11 (6)
Day 22: Fifth individual challenge
Day 23: Tribal council #12 (5)
Day 24: Sixth individual challenge
Day 25: Tribal council #13 (4)
Day 26: The game.
Day 27: Jury questions
Day 28: Jury votes
.

zoraster
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Post Post #1  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:59 am

Just a bump to remind people that player applications are ending this week. Get your application in soon.
.

zoraster
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Post Post #2  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:07 pm

This game's applications for players closes in 2 days.
.

zoraster
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Post Post #3  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:32 am

Applications for Player spots close in an hour and a half (noon EST).

Spectators can continue to send in their applications until the game starts.
.

zoraster
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Post Post #4  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:13 pm

Sign ups for players are closed. You may still apply to be a spectator.
.

zoraster
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Post Post #5  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:24 pm

  • Save the Dates for players have been sent out via PM to those cast as players. Login information and so forth will be sent out at 4pm EST on Thursday, February 15th. The first challenge will begin on the 16th at 6pm EST.
  • Spectator Information and login information has been sent out for Spectators
  • Replacement players have been sent information about being a replacement

If you have not received a PM from me with one of the above, it is likely because you selected to be a Player Only and were not cast. Please let me know if you decide to spectate as I believe this will be a fun one to watch!
.

zoraster
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Post Post #6  (ISO)  » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:36 am

Last chance to sign up as a spectator! Only about 4.5 hours left until the game begins!
.

zoraster
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Post Post #7  (ISO)  » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:32 pm

Sign ups are closed and the game has launched. Thanks to everyone who applied!
.

zoraster
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Post Post #8  (ISO)  » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:55 pm

The finale is now open for chatter! You can follow along, even as a guest, here: http://s15.zetaboards.com/ExpectTheExpe ... 0451518/1/

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Post Post #9  (ISO)  » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:50 pm

Congratulations to Jared aka bippy!

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Post Post #10  (ISO)  » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:50 pm

Here are my thoughts under 3 different categories: Game thoughts, Game Design thoughts, and potential changes.

SPOILERS ARE BELOW

Game thoughts
  • I don’t want to overdo it on these as players and spectators will have more interesting takes. But I did want to address a few things.
  • I do want to congratulate Jared again for winning and Gear and Paul for making it to the f3. If you had asked me a F8 whether Jared had a chance of winning, I’d have said heck no. But he played a great game and was a deserving winner. In particular he had a very strong end-game. Perhaps he will take these winnings and apply them to a “using commas correctly and in moderation” course.
  • JT’s removal was unfortunate. He made an honest mistake (he posted something that said “Vash’s card rundown” or something like that. It was up for hours. People saw. Anonymity was ruined. In the aftermath, some members on Gold seemed to feel that his removal was too harsh. But removing him wasn’t about punishment. Had I been assured no one saw, I would have simply warned Vash. Removing him was about preserving anonymity, and there was simply no way to accomplish that without removing him from the game. Options like punishing him by not allowing him to compete for fan favorite are obviously do nothing to cure that. It created a negative game environment that persisted for a while, and no game mod wants that.
  • Interestingly enough, a few people seemed to have more of a problem with removing him, which I would do 100 times out of 100 times in the future, rather than the part I have this general feeling there might be a better solution for: having a discard round. In the end, it was the discard round that was particularly destructive as Blue was able to earn a win over Gold while only using low cards. It was a problem that led to Blue having a card advantage at a crucial point after the merge.
  • But I haven’t thought of the way to address that that wouldn’t give Gold an advantage over Blue. Maybe I should have kept my mouth shut until both teams played their cards and announced whatever the result was that JT was going home only at that point. That sort of violates the concept of the game as an open, transparent game and runs counter to my general philosophy which is that mods shouldn’t deceive players.
  • I want to thank my co-mods, Radja and PrivateI, who were an immense amount of help with the game. This game wasn’t overly burdensome on the mods (it was designed not to be so and I tried hard to make a spreadsheet that made running the game easy), but they kept things up to date while I was out of town for quite a while, and that’s amazing. I also want to thank Reck who helped a lot in refining the game.

Game Design Thoughts
  • When I designed this game, I had a lot of different things I had added at one point or another. My philosophy is usually to refine a game down to its base parts and a simpler game that focuses on the core elements is usually better than a complicated one. That said, there are a number of things that could have been in it that would have improved the game. Obviously this game was somewhat of an experiment, and I thought it worked out moderately well for a first drive-through.
  • While a true pagong did not occur, there were times it felt hopeless for the former Gold tribe. This was reinforced by the feeling after JT was removed, but the design of the game was always such that at least for a couple of rounds after the merge, there was going to be a hopeless feeling where the minority tribe was in deep trouble. JT’s removal removed some of the “well, it’s your fault you’re here” line that would have been part of it, but I don’t think games where it totally drains the morale of players are good.
  • Fundamental to that problem was absolutely no connections between the tribes before the merge, not even a superficial one. Yes, plenty of the mechanics drove tribes toward at least pretending a pagong (though that’s not unusual in Survivor), but if people had had some contact with each other and even had superficial connections to begin with, I think it wouldn’t have felt so dead for the first few post-merge eliminations. We’ll talk about changes I’d like to see in future versions in another section, but I think it’s just worth pointing out that I know this was an issue.
  • Overall, I think the setup was a good beginning. It was a setup that was run from start to finish in roughly 30 days. It reduced the strain on players, I think, which at times made players antsy because they wanted to PLAY MORE GAME, but overall I think that’s positive or at the very least offers a different style than the typical which will appeal to certain people. I liked that challenges were thought provoking and somewhat strategic but never required too much of each player. It’s not intended to be a particularly DEEP strategic game, to be clear. It’s not one that you’d run as a mish mash game just on its own. But it’s a game with enough depth to make challenges interesting. It DOES have a “weakness” in the sense that it’s incredibly unlikely that a person on the outs can go on a challenge run to make it to the Final. But that’s an acceptable loss, I think. Martin was able to use his cards to ALMOST turn it around. The (and I’m not saying this in a pejorative way) collusion between Jared, Paul and Gear to keep Martin out in the Final game is worth addressing in some form, but I wonder if future players would allow a Jared to control the game as he did. If Paul had simply destroyed everyone in the final challenge as he could have easily done, would he have won? I think there’s a case to be made he would have.


Potential Changes
  • There were two in the survey that were overwhelmingly preferred: (1) have a % chance for a swap at certain points in the pre-merge game and (2) Allow spectators to talk to players.
  • I think adding a % chance for a swap at certain points is a no-brainer. Chumlee rightly suggested this, but it was actually an idea I scrapped coming into the game. I wish I hadn’t. Even if a swap doesn’t occur, the tension it would create would be positive for the game.
  • Allowing spectators to talk. Personally, I think the fan favorite mechanic didn’t work out great and I’m all for allowing spectators to talk to players. Players obviously craved the interaction that we, as mods, couldn’t really provide them.
  • I think having a % chance for a merge at 10, 11 or 12 (a known %) is a good idea for the same reasons as above. While open games create a known set of rules that players should take advantage of, adding some uncertainty on this front would create positive tension that I think would have led to a more interesting pre-merge.
  • Jury size increased. I kind of liked the smaller jury, with 6, but players were enough in favor of increasing to 7 that I think that’s the change that should occur. It obviously offers some advantages in terms of not having ties (though 3-3-1 is still a possibility).
  • Idols: I actually thought the way idols were worked into the game was good. That said, I’d probably like to announce when the idol was found (perhaps a day later) so that people didn’t wonder if they should keep searching.
  • Chances for cross-tribe communication. I think this would help a lot, even if it’s just allowing them to post in open threads. Or perhaps have a kidnap mechanic where the winning tribe gets to pick a player from the opposing tribe to temporarily join/PM with members on their tribe.
  • Tie breakers. I’m still very split on this. Players are divided as well on this question. I think standard tie-breakers are in a perfect universe the better way of doing things. But one of the strengths of this game is the predictable schedule and keeping the timing of it to a very predictable length. I’ll have to think about this. Maybe there’s room for some creativity here.
  • I think it’d be nice if there were a mechanic for adding some cards “back” into players’ hands. I’m not sure what that’d be though, and I don’t want to overcomplicate the game.
  • I know a lot of people have a lot of thoughts on F3 vs. F2. As a general rule, I prefer F2. But F3 works better in this environment as it gives a more interesting division of results in the Final 4 game.

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Post Post #11  (ISO)  » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:51 pm

This thread is now unlocked

BROseidon
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Post Post #12  (ISO)  » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:52 pm

Good use of ur alt Zor

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Post Post #13  (ISO)  » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:55 pm

yeah. sucks i have to do it this way. hopefully get it fixed soon.

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Post Post #14  (ISO)  » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:59 pm

Great game zor! Thanks for letting me be a part of it as a mod! It was great fun!
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Post Post #15  (ISO)  » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:00 pm

Good game everyone! Congrats Bippy!

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Post Post #16  (ISO)  » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:00 pm

go jared fuck paul

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Post Post #17  (ISO)  » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:00 pm

In post 10, zoraster wrote:Tie breakers. I’m still very split on this. Players are divided as well on this question. I think standard tie-breakers are in a perfect universe the better way of doing things. But one of the strengths of this game is the predictable schedule and keeping the timing of it to a very predictable length. I’ll have to think about this. Maybe there’s room for some creativity here.

I liked the tiebreaker mechanic and wish it came into play.

Good game!
To be clear: this is not allowed

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Post Post #18  (ISO)  » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:03 pm

it did come into play! in a big way, at the merge. it's just people knew it was going to so avoided it

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Post Post #19  (ISO)  » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:07 pm

In post 18, Definitely Not Zor wrote:it did come into play! in a big way, at the merge. it's just people knew it was going to so avoided it

I think with normal voting mechanics it still ends in a gold getting voted out

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Post Post #20  (ISO)  » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:07 pm

Yeah there was also a time during the pre-merge where Paul/Gear/I were talking about intentionally going above what we said we would in order to win a 3:3 tiebreak but then Paul afk-played and that went out the window.

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Post Post #21  (ISO)  » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:10 pm

inactivity as it related to official vote/card play confused me. I didn't exactly make it hard to make a provisional card play, so there wasn't really an excuse to letting it go to deadline without something.

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Post Post #22  (ISO)  » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:12 pm

ELOs are updated, and hiplop has finally overtaken Snakes :O

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Congrats bippy, it's been a pleasure seeing you grow as a player over the past year, and I'm ecstatic you got yourself a win!
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Post Post #23  (ISO)  » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:14 pm

Someone made a comment to the effect of "We got Kwazued again. When will we learn??" Fair or unfair?

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Post Post #24  (ISO)  » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:18 pm

In post 23, Definitely Not Zor wrote:Someone made a comment to the effect of "We got Kwazued again. When will we learn??" Fair or unfair?


Somewhat fair. I guessed CC as Jared just on the off-chance it was a deliberate shtick, but I didn't read it as ingenuine, unlike Kawazu.
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