Mafiascum.net

Well that's also a question of how much public talking is allowed in challenge threads.
With how much we currently tend to use public areas when we have them, the challenge threads can provide almost the same thing

Honestly, that's something else that I think should be being at least a little more mandated anyway. Really, from my memory any difference between having a public forum or not is purely theoretical. In the past it hasn't mattered all that much, but it still has the potential to make a large impact.

I don't think there are many games that were really shaped by their general discussion forums or shoutboxes, and if anything they have been getting less and less popular with time.

in Survivor you have no idea what the other tribe(s) is/are like. General discussion forums and shoutboxes have no place.

in survivor you can't talk to everyone simultaneously without the other people hearing what you're saying

Oh man I miss eavesdropping on everyone at Survivormeet.

Idols and unique items/powers are heavily prevalent in the game and exceed previous qualifiers.
The way communication occurs significantly changes the foundation of how the game will be played.
The game is in a fairly constant state of flux, or there are extreme methods of game shakeups.
Multiple elimination rounds will be common, and/or players will be expected to be voted out in non-traditional methods.
The game will feature multiple unique/themed mechanics that are mostly or entirely secretive and players should expect to be surprised by design.


Idols could be re-hidden, or there could be more than one idol per tribe / Items & powers in this game are fairly standard.
PM communication exists, but there are incidents of cross-tribal communication, or unusual communication methods/restrictions.
Tribe swaps occur frequently, or there are non-traditional game shakeups.
Players should expect that there will be occurrences of multiple eliminations in a round, or players being voted out in a non-traditional methods.
Mechanics/twists in this game should be expected, but they will be partially explained ahead of time to allow players to play around them.


One idol per tribe, maximum, with no re-hiding of idols. / One or two items exist
Communication is mostly limited to PMs, and is strictly on tribal lines (not including potential challenge smack talk).
Tribe swaps occur with more frequency.
There's a potential for more than one player to be eliminated per round, based on who is voted out.
Mechanics/twists only include twists/mechanics from the TV show, and/or any new mechanics/twists are fully explained ahead of time.


There are little-to-no hidden items or idols in this game, with no re-hiding of idols. / No items are present.
Communication in this game is strictly limited to PMs.
There is only one (or none) tribe shakeups in the game per % of playerlist.
Players will be eliminated once per round, based only on who is voted out.
Nothing in this game would be surprising to see on the first few seasons of Survivor (TV).

I feel like thresholds for the upper categories should be a bit lower? Getting 16-20 is very hard with the reduced points

Complex Game: 14-20 points
Twisty Game: 9-13 points
Standard Game: 4-8 points
Vanilla Game: 0-3
??

In post 32, BROseidon wrote:I feel like thresholds for the upper categories should be a bit lower? Getting 16-20 is very hard with the reduced points

I'm not entirely sure that's a problem. The purpose of the upper category is to make people say "Woah, is this game the sort of thing I want to sign up for?" If games have a hard time hitting that category then that makes the ones that do stand out that much more.

Is there a difference between the two levels of Complex games?

In post 34, Haschel Cedricson wrote:

In post 32, BROseidon wrote:I feel like thresholds for the upper categories should be a bit lower? Getting 16-20 is very hard with the reduced points

I'm not entirely sure that's a problem. The purpose of the upper category is to make people say "Woah, is this game the sort of thing I want to sign up for?" If games have a hard time hitting that category then that makes the ones that do stand out that much more.

MLS scores an 11, by my count. MLS being in the top tier is, IMO, a reasonable heuristic.

Like something that is 2nd-most complex tier across the board should hit the highest tier.

I would do something like:

0-2
3-5
7-9
10+

That might be too conservative but I think it gets the general point across.

In post 37, BROseidon wrote:I would do something like:

0-2
3-5
7-9
10+

What would really help is if people with more familiarity with the games (IE the mods of each game) would give their games scores using the current set of classifications. I think just putting all the scores out there and going "where do we draw the line" is probably a good method.

Items and Idols: 4. There were a lot of items and getting them affected voting power.
Communication: 2. An item allowed a player to talk to the dead.
Swaps: 2. There were many swaps and one split was based on challenge performance.
Eliminations: 2. One player was eliminated after performing poorly on the aforementioned challenge.
Mechanics: 2. VPL and the Dragonball Idol were complex, but were explained beforehand.

Total:


Idols and Items: 4. The auction introduced a non-standard number of items.
Communications: 2. Winning tribes in the Continent phase got to visit the opposing TCs, Algiers created an Alliance Subforum.
Swaps and Shakeups: 2. There were multiple swaps at unpredictable times.
Eliminations: 2. Two players went home per round until the Old/New World split.
Mechanics and Twists: 4. Terra Incognita, Technology, Gold were all unexplained.

Total:

MLS should be considered fairly crazy, but we’ve seen crazier than a game that had exactly zero twists after the F12 short of a single hidden idol.

Big Brother would rate as fairly incomplex on this scale too but we're not using non-survivor standards to judge our survivor rating system.

:

Idols and Items--
Communication--
Swaps and Shake-ups--
Mechanics--
Eliminations--

Total:

I'm counting Big Brother as relatively incomplex, as Shadow suggested, but the format changes from round to round, and the people switching tribes every round as more complex.

Idols & Items: 1, because auction
Communication Methods: 2, only because partners could crosstalk
Swaps & Game Shakeups: 2, I guess, for the Wheel/the one Big Brother round?
Eliminations: 1, for the double boot round
Mechanics & Twists: 1

Total of 7, I guess, which seems about right

this raises some interesting questions around grey areas that we can consider:

DBZA Had an item that let you communicate with the jury. Do you think that should affect the Communication rating?

Civilization had a private forum controlled by the winner of it that let them invite chosen friends at any time. Should that affect the Communication rating?

In Magic Kingdom the majority of my communications with people weren't PMs at all, it was all skype chats and chatrooms. What kind of rating does that earn?
Do the 1-4 immunity necklaces handed out every round during the merge count as items/an outstanding twist enough to get max points?

I didn't mean that Big Brother in Survivor is normal :p but that we wouldn't use a scale that decides if survivor games are whack to say a BB game is normal so shouldn't do the other way around either and MLS was not a Survivor game.

Re: MK, I'm hesitant to include the communication component on non-anons at all. I think the immunity necklaces would affect the mechanics element rather than the items element, especially since Big Brother was an option. But that would just move the mechanics element to a "2".

I think the scale could still generally apply to a Big Brother game, if we ever have one again, with a few changes.

The purpose of PMs in most games is to preserve anonymity; in a non-anon a Skype message is functionally a PM. The communication category for non-anons should be focused more on who you can talk to instead of how you can talk to them.

I'm mostly asking this because the introduction of real-time chatting is considered by some people to be extremely bastard and game-changing

Items: 2 (no idols apparently, but some powers and penalties introduced by a challenge)
Communication: 2 (for the tribe picking link-up pairs)
Swaps & Shakeups: 2? (4 tribes to 2, then to 3, then shipwreck, and back to 2 before merge)
Eliminations: 4 (artifact eliminations and boggle)
Mechanics & Twists: 2 (artifact mechanic, exile)

Total: 12



Items: 4 (chatzy, switcharoo, plus more normal items and idols)
Communication: 2 (post restriction, chatzy item)
Swaps & Shakeups: 2 (2 swaps and a shipwreck)
Eliminations: 1 (double boot)
Mechanics & Twists: 1? (exile)

Total: 10

._.