Best way to do relationship charts?

For large social games such as Survivor where the primary mechanic is social interaction.
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Best way to do relationship charts?

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:55 pm

Post by Awoo »

So if you've ever gone into one of my confessionals, I tend to do these relationship charts where I color people's names in green if I'm close with them, pink if they're an easy target, yellow if they're a threat, etc, and give a short comment on them.

I think it's a really good and easy to read way of seeing what one person is thinking about his competitors. But I always feel like what falls short in that format is trying to say what I think of the relationships of other people.

Like for example, if I was a spectator, or I was a player trying to map out people's motivations and I wanted to do something similar, to try to put everybody's relationships, alliances, and personal agendas into one easy to read document, is there any known good format for that?
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:08 pm

Post by Vijarada »

relationship nexus with different coloured nodes/connections
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:16 pm

Post by CaptainMeme »

SPREADSHEET
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:19 pm

Post by CaptainMeme »

I mean, it doesn't leave much room for description but something like this would work well on a larger tribe if you're just trying to summarise

Image

and then you can go into the specifics underneath
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:31 pm

Post by xofelf »

A lot of people use webs and colour code them. I can't say I've seen people include threat level in their assessments though, so that's a cool metric you got there.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:33 am

Post by Psyche »

i have no idea what lsgs are like but this is an interesting problem
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:40 am

Post by Psyche »

oh yeah i agree with captainmeme
can imagine your representations of gamestates right now as an N-by-1 matrix where for each of N players you measure
your
relationship with them while you could instead have an N-by-N matrix where you measure each person's relationship with each other person's relationship. The diagonal of this matrix can just be greyed out (or set to maximum affinity...)
it'll be harder to see all your notes in one place since they'll likely be truncated from cell to cell, but if you make the table right you'll be able to "focus" on particular players and see all your notes about them listed in full together
there might be some cool mathy things you can do with matrices like these to maybe predict relationships between people or other dynamics, but i'm not sure if such things would fit the context of an LSG game or not; interesting to ponder sometime maybe
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:18 am

Post by Randomnamechange »

the only problem is if you want to denote multi person alliances. maybe give each alliance a code, and add the codes people share into their corresponding relationship box?
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:22 am

Post by Fluminator »

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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:42 am

Post by Psyche »

In post 7, Randomnamechange wrote:the only problem is if you want to denote multi person alliances. maybe give each alliance a code, and add the codes people share into their corresponding relationship box?
Add another row/column for the alliance!
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:13 am

Post by McMenno »

you should play one and try it out imo,,,
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:30 am

Post by Haschel Cedricson »

Here's how I did mine in #2016:
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Spoiler: Guess how the tribe swap ended up?
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:32 am

Post by Awoo »


yeah... the reason I made this thread is because the nodes-edges thing is kinda hard to scale, especially from the spec POV who sees all
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:38 pm

Post by Fluminator »

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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:36 pm

Post by Malkon05 »

I'm so happy someone else made use of this chart haha. Still the craziest thing I've ever done to figure out shit in the merge.
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:30 am

Post by Chevre »

sorry, I only do voting charts:

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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:22 am

Post by Awoo »

?????????????????????????????????
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:14 pm

Post by CaptainMeme »

the best thing about that round was that what actually happened wasn't on the spreadsheet
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:51 am

Post by Awoo »

Bumping this thread with more stuff because there is still no solution.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/survivo ... -t494.html

Credit to papa zito for this contribution. It looks okay but it's hard to view all the different images. Focusing one person at a time is a good idea because it brings the amount of information you need to view at a time from a factor of n^2 down to n, but it's still not quite enough. It also has the (same) problem that we can't view multi-person alliances easily.
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:02 am

Post by Awoo »

https://www.mafiascum.net/social-games/ ... opic=160.0

This is my attempt at making graphs scale, from when I specc'd survivor equestria. I did my absolute best to make graphs readable by using super thick, transparent, and coloured edges, and I even did a lot of manual adjustment to maximize how readable the graph is. Despite my best efforts, in only 1 episode, two out of three tribes were almost completely unreadable, and the third tribe only made sense because it was so simple. I don't want to try to make one of these in a merge situation.
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:13 pm

Post by xofelf »

I think the only reason Zito's thing worked as well as it did is because people actually answered his spec questions and that's a lot of how he kept on top of it all. A lot of this relies on players giving updated confessionals, which in some games are hard to come by. Do you have a plan on how to scour confessionals for this kind of data? Are you going to take any voting records into account here?
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:53 pm

Post by Awoo »

A chart is just a way of aggregating the data that players give. If confessional information is sparse in a game, a good quality chart can at least serve to aggregate the information that the specs do have. You can do whatever you want to get data, be it spec questions, plain old reading confessionals like I did in equestria, reading into votes, or even taking your own creative liberties and guessing what the people who don't post in their confessionals are doing through SPV and voting patterns. It doesn't really matter imo.

The problem I'm concerned with isn't how to get the data, it's how to display the data. All the social network visualization software out there is targeted towards finding the big picture or key actors in large, complex, and often rather sparse networks, whereas the spectator of an LSG wants to soak up all the juicy gossip of very small but very dense social networks. As far as I know, there is nothing out there that addresses this problem effectively.

The traditional approach to dealing with small, dense networks (classrooms) is using sociograms, but those don't really go deep enough for an LSG spectator, plus they rely too much on spec questions (who is your closest ally? ...every single round.)
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:37 am

Post by Cephrir »

this probably wont be a new idea but i recently had cause to use bubbl.us for something like this

i changed the color of bubbles to represent their relationship with me then drew lines between them to show their alliances with each other

Image

i dont think it lets you change line colors but i only cared about positive relationships anyway
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:25 pm

Post by Drench »

don't have alliances. Simple
join your union
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:25 pm

Post by Drench »

as if y'all are analysing your positions in the game rather than just vibing from moment to moment
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