[Standard]Survivor: TRTWIUAA {Final Tribal Council}

For large social games such as Survivor where the primary mechanic is social interaction.
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Post Post #775 (ISO) » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:20 pm

Post by Bellaphant »

Love you all :)
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Post Post #776 (ISO) » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:23 pm

Post by PrivateI »

ScootsBaboo
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Post Post #777 (ISO) » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:26 pm

Post by ScootsBaboo »

Well done Zor! Thank you everyone!
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Post Post #778 (ISO) » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:39 pm

Post by Skelda »

Congrats Zor, and thank you so much for your amazing confessional! You made spectating this game much more fun. Congrats Bella and Scoots too, that was a hard-fought FTC.
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Post Post #779 (ISO) » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:59 pm

Post by McMenno »

yo side note: Why the fuck was Brom allowed to sign up as an ALT in a NON-ANONYMOUS game PRETENDING to be a NEWBIE?
mafiascum is on life support
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Post Post #780 (ISO) » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:03 pm

Post by SleepyKrew »

iom outraged
To be clear: quack
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Post Post #781 (ISO) » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:28 pm

Post by Malkon05 »

The best thing I ever did this game was become the #1 Zor Stan. <3 congratulations!
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Post Post #782 (ISO) » Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:29 pm

Post by Cheery Dog »

If anybody wants to go read them, confessionals are now all open.

You'll have to find them yourself as I'm not going far enough to link them.
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*It may be held by someone else if you discount the major downtime in 2012 and 2014, I'm not doing the research.
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Post Post #783 (ISO) » Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:37 pm

Post by zoraster »

ooof. sorry for any uh... snark or whatever.
.
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Post Post #784 (ISO) » Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:40 pm

Post by Radja »

Oof I didn't vote.

Sorry about that. Today was not the best Day.

My vote would have been for zoraster, in case you were wondering
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Post Post #785 (ISO) » Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:46 pm

Post by zoraster »

<3
.
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Post Post #786 (ISO) » Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:53 pm

Post by BROseidon »

In post 785, Radja wrote:Oof I didn't vote.

Sorry about that. Today was not the best Day.

My vote would have been for zoraster, in case you were wondering
Second juror ever to not cast an FTC vote?
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Post Post #787 (ISO) » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:26 am

Post by zoraster »

I've been on a ski trip the past week (basically I left the moment I won), so I haven't really had time to post a post-mortem. I'm sure that's greatly disappointing to everyone, but let me correct it now!

1. First, thanks to Bella and Scoots. While it was certainly a contentious FTC where I think everyone brought their A-game, we were behind the scenes having fun anyway. I couldn't have asked for better people to go to the end with, regardless of outcome.
2. Thanks to Monty and his co-mods for running a great game (despite any criticism that follows). It was super long, but it was still run exceptionally well. If you added up all of the time you were late with a round it probably was less than 2 hours. Over the course of THREE MONTHS and like 40 deadlines, that's truly impressive. Certainly that's not something I could have managed.
3. Thanks to everyone else who played. I had a blast. It was so good to meet people, both new and old.


Thoughts on my Own Game

1. I made a ton of mistakes this game. I argued differently in my FTC, but no question there were things I did I wouldn't do again. I mishandled Bella on the Vash vote (though she mishandled me too), so it was good she wasn't in the jury for that. I probably lost Menno's vote with a poorly conceived attempt to jury manage. Many other smaller mistakes I can look back and cringe at. And then there must be myriad others ones where I don't even realize I made a mistake. This game is incredibly complex.
2. Still, being basically a newbie at this thing and attempting to play pretty hard, I was always going to make quite a few mistakes. I was never going to win playing passively because I was never going to be able to rely on a social-likability game and a loyalty game I think probably gets me cut pre-merge given all the swaps and not being one of the people known to others as a particularly loyal player (non-anon is a very two-edged sword).
3. Speaking of which, I made a ton of deals obviously, but part of the reason that came back to almost bite me in the ass was that I went to TC so much and there were so many swaps. Because I was always the one making the moves in pre-merge TCs that meant the only people left from any tribe of mine were pretty much the people I had deals with. That's a pretty hard argument to make at FTC (it likely comes across as an excuse), but it's one that definitely has a lot of truth to it.
4. I read a
lot
of former FTCs as we got toward the end. I knew I'd be pretty good at FTC and had a game I could use a strong FTC performance to potentially win. I understand the spectators' skepticism heading into it, but I was always way more confident than they apparently were, probably because I didn't have to read the jury chat. In some ways, FTCs are the most
learnable
thing in this game as a newbie. Understanding why someone won after the fact is really hard for general games. You have to understand how someone played, the people on the jury, etc. but understanding what's successful in an FTC is easier -- particularly when you're already someone who has some experience with persuasive writing. I'm a little surprised no one's kind of posted a guide to FTCs though. That would have made my job a lot easier!

Spoiler: Game Design Stuff
Game Design Stuff

1. I think with a game this size and length it would be good to have a posted tentative end date or range of dates. I know that means the mods have to calculate this, but they really should do this anyway. Lots of things might cause the end date to slide (ties, unexpected events, etc.) but some specific end point or range of end points would help a lot when managing expectations. Maybe just a "
minimum end date
." This actually would be a pretty good policy for all mods in all LSGs.
2. That said, I actually liked the longer deadlines for the most part, but the holidays (thanksgiving, christmas, new years) really were too long. It caused that middle period of the game to really bog down. I think you guys realized that part, so I won't dwell on it. But I liked the general 24 hours for challenges, 48 hours for votes timeline. It did make this an endurance game though!
3a. If you advertise a game with "This game is NOT designed to be OVERWHELMING"
don't do night time deadlines/start times.
I don't care if your co-mod is Australian. I don't care if you think it'd be funny. I don't care about any of that. There was plenty of time to do a normal start time for the idol hunt. It's not okay. It's not FAIR game design. And it goes entirely against the stated advertisement. The result (the idol wasn't found until later in the day)
DOES NOT MATTER
. If you want to do these types of night deadlines, it should be in a game where it's explicit that the game will be demanding of people's time and schedule.
3b. Furthermore, don't give a huge RANGE of times. We were told we'd get idol information between 1am and 6am EST. I still get angry thinking about this. Why was it important to mess with players like this? If it was really to accommodate Cheery Dog's schedule, he shouldn't have been the comod to do the idol hunt.
4. The 2x2 twist (i.e. the twist where the top two finishers got immunity for two rounds) could have been fixed in one of two ways: (1) split the two. The problematic part was the COMBINATION of effects. If it had just been top two getting immunity for one round, it'd be okay. If it had just been one person getting two rounds of immunity it'd be okay. OR (2) Move it to F10. Having it fall at F8 meant that there weren't enough other people to even really contemplate working against the immunity holders. I know there are both specs and players that pooh-poohed this point, but frankly these people lack a fundamental understanding of the effect of the twist. I understand the desire was to protect good immunity players that are often targeted at this point in the game, but even if for whatever reason that's a legitimate desire, this was too much.
5. The twist where Bro went home (i.e. both tribes vote out someone and the person with the quickest time isn't booted) isn't one I love, and I'm not sure it was used
purposefully
. It wasn't horrible, and I understand that it was another way to make everyone care about a challenge pre-merge, but it did mean you kind of wanted to take the easiest route possible. It incentivizes eliminating bad challenge players over any other strategic decision, even though we ended up going after Bro during his vacation. I don't really see that as a positive, but if it was the intent I guess that's okay. It just seemed like a twist where the mods maybe said "hey that sounds cool" without actually thinking about what effect they wanted to create.
6. I think more diversity of challenges, particularly pre-merge, would be nice. I understand you're dealing with 32 people at the start though, and there's a limit to what type of challenges you can run in a timely manner with that many people, so this isn't a huge deal.
7. Lotsa swaps? I think you gotta do what you gotta do to make a 32-player game manageable. Could we have reduced the number of pre-merge tribes down to 4ish? Probably, but I actually thought the number of swaps fit the game pretty well, particularly with the longer deadlines allowing for each swap to breathe.
8. Regardless, overall a well run, fun game. I appreciate the hard work the mods put in!
.
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Post Post #788 (ISO) » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:44 am

Post by het »

In post 787, zoraster wrote: 5. The twist where Bro went home (i.e. both tribes vote out someone and the person with the quickest time isn't booted) isn't one I love, and I'm not sure it was used
purposefully
. It wasn't horrible, and I understand that it was another way to make everyone care about a challenge pre-merge, but it did mean you kind of wanted to take the easiest route possible. It incentivizes eliminating bad challenge players over any other strategic decision, even though we ended up going after Bro during his vacation. I don't really see that as a positive, but if it was the intent I guess that's okay. It just seemed like a twist where the mods maybe said "hey that sounds cool" without actually thinking about what effect they wanted to create.
I mean the fact that those of us on the opposing tribe did the opposite indicates that it wasn't as simple as you describe here, right? I actually thought that twist was kind of interesting.
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Post Post #789 (ISO) » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:46 am

Post by zoraster »

i mean, how often can you count on someone to offer themselves up to get voted?
.
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