Survivor: Battle of the Bands [Game Over]


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Post Post #75 (ISO) » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:15 pm

Post by Drench »

Spoiler: eh
this is like the fourth paragraph but i'm putting it up the front as well because its the part i think is most importantyou can certainly be anti-scorched earth. i think it is good to generally be anti-scorched earth. i think lines were crossed, and i'm responsible for that, and i'm unreservedly sorry. i was legitimately angry and hurt, and i can't be sorry for that because that's just how it turned out, but i didn't have to manifest it like that. i certainly didn't need to say some of the things i said. some of the things i said i would not take back, and i would keep right there, but devaluing people instead of devaluing how they acted was when things went too far. and i'm sorry for that.


i think it's incumbent on everyone to do different things. it is incumbent on the players to ensure that the jury they're creating is going to be favourable (this is just a game thing), but it is equally incumbent on the jury if not more so, in retrospect, to ensure that they are not multiplying and adding to the hurt emotions already in the game and already present with them. because there will be some, and juries will be bitter, and that's going to happen, but i think the ball was dropped (and hugely by me, like, wow) in the jury being unable to put a cap on how many people got hurt. usually in our games at least one side can do at least a part of it. there was a total breakdown on both sides here. this doesn't apportion equal blame, because i would put that on the jury for the echo chamber getting so........echoey............., but it apportions some blame both ways. so i think that there would have been a bitter jury, but certainly the inability to regulate the intensity of emotion on the jury side added a lot of hurt that could have been avoided.

at the same time, lambasting people for being emotional prima facie is anti-survivor. that is never going to not be true. people can (and did) go too far. but being emotional is part of the game. remove emotion and you don't have survivor anymore. jurors can and should be able to vent at the players who voted them off, whether for strategic reasons, or personal reasons. and in the former, if they take it too far, they're going to look pretty silly after the fact for excoriating someone who played better than them. in the latter, no such dice. emotion in that context isn't strategic. just because someone's in and you're not don't invalidate your emotions.

at the end of the day, sometimes people are assholes to people. sometimes, players will be assholes to other players on the way out. telling those jurors that they can't be assholes back defeats the point of a jury. you might as well have a bunch of computers playing chess. being major assholes, scorching the earth, well. but telling people they have to suppress what was given to them and not give it back suppresses one of the points of the jury.

you can certainly be anti-scorched earth. i think it is good to generally be anti-scorched earth. i think lines were crossed, and i'm responsible for that, and i'm unreservedly sorry. i was legitimately angry and hurt, and i can't be sorry for that because that's just how it turned out, but i didn't have to manifest it like that. i certainly didn't need to say some of the things i said. some of the things i said i would not take back, and i would keep right there, but devaluing people instead of devaluing how they acted was when things went too far. and i'm sorry for that.

but if you're anti-bitter jury full stop, as many spectators appeared to be, i think you're anti-survivor. i need to say that right now. (reasonably? rationally? appropriately?) bitter juries are part of this game. if you think juries should reward best game and that's it with no emotion considered, i think you don't understand what survivor is about. and you probably voted for russell hantz for fan favourite. and that's pretty silly.

this has been a bit of a ramble but at the end of the day maybe if i had just yelled in my confessional instead no feelings would've been hurt and i would still have the weight off my chest. but what's done is done and it is regretted, unconditionally. but if this means we can't post dank memes any more then that is a loss too great for this community to bear
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Post Post #76 (ISO) » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:29 pm

Post by Shadoweh »

In post 74, kloud1516 wrote:Congratulations to Bella, Shadow, and the moderators for a great game. Now get thee to a music studio!

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Post Post #77 (ISO) » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:35 pm

Post by Nyalite »

No one is saying or has said juries aren't allowed to be bitter. Or that emotion can't be the reason for your vote.
That is not the argument here and don't try to change it to be about that.
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Post Post #78 (ISO) » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:35 pm

Post by CuddlyCaucasian »

I'm totally fine with jurors being mad at the finalists! You have every right to be if you feel like they wronged you. My only point of contention was that lines WERE crossed, and it shouldn't have been allowed. There's been talk over whether bans should come as a result of that, and I kinda feel like that would be wrong since there was never any warning given to people crossing lines. I don't want to tell people how to mod their games, but even though these games are off-site, they're being run through the site queue, and some of the major site rules need to apply.

To play devil's advocate, I think part of the reason people get upset with jurors being extremely insulting to finalists during FTC is that at that point, there's nothing that's really accomplishing. If that person screwed you over during the game, that was part of the game, but at FTC the only thing you can do to affect the game is to not vote for the person who screwed you over to win. Sure, calling the finalists names and telling them they're worthless might be a way for you to release your pent-up rage, but there's not any benefit to that.
I feel like at this point, if a juror is only going to deride the finalists, both finalists should make a pact to completely ignore that juror's thread if they really don't feel like putting up with their insults.
In the end, the jurors of BOTB in question should have been warned, and punishment without warning is a pretty bad precedent to set as long as there isn't any continuing vitriol post-game.
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Post Post #79 (ISO) » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:36 pm

Post by Drench »

i'm not gonna fight in the thread except to say that i've addressed both your points and i think you should read my post again.
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Post Post #80 (ISO) » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:40 pm

Post by Shadoweh »

In post 78, CuddlyCaucasian wrote:
I feel like at this point, if a juror is only going to deride the finalists, both finalists should make a pact to completely ignore that juror's thread if they really don't feel like putting up with their insults.

I feel the need to point out that in this game our FTC PMing privledges were removed expressly so that we would not make pacts together on how to answer juror's questions, so we were literally not allowed to do this.
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Post Post #81 (ISO) » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:44 pm

Post by Nyalite »

Snipped up drench quote wrote:i think lines were crossed, and i'm responsible for that, and i'm unreservedly sorry. i didn't have to manifest it like that. i certainly didn't need to say some of the things i said. devaluing people instead of devaluing how they acted was when things went too far. and i'm sorry for that.


If you had said that, p much everyone would have moved on.

But instead you said:

Drench wrote:i think it's incumbent on everyone to do different things. it is incumbent on the players to ensure that the jury they're creating is going to be favourable (this is just a game thing), but it is equally incumbent on the jury if not more so, in retrospect, to ensure that they are not multiplying and adding to the hurt emotions already in the game and already present with them. because there will be some, and juries will be bitter, and that's going to happen, but i think the ball was dropped (and hugely by me, like, wow) in the jury being unable to put a cap on how many people got hurt. usually in our games at least one side can do at least a part of it. there was a total breakdown on both sides here. this doesn't apportion equal blame, because i would put that on the jury for the echo chamber getting so........echoey............., but it apportions some blame both ways. so i think that there would have been a bitter jury, but certainly the inability to regulate the intensity of emotion on the jury side added a lot of hurt that could have been avoided.

at the same time, lambasting people for being emotional prima facie is anti-survivor. that is never going to not be true. people can (and did) go too far. but being emotional is part of the game. remove emotion and you don't have survivor anymore. jurors can and should be able to vent at the players who voted them off, whether for strategic reasons, or personal reasons. and in the former, if they take it too far, they're going to look pretty silly after the fact for excoriating someone who played better than them. in the latter, no such dice. emotion in that context isn't strategic. just because someone's in and you're not don't invalidate your emotions.

at the end of the day, sometimes people are assholes to people. sometimes, players will be assholes to other players on the way out. telling those jurors that they can't be assholes back defeats the point of a jury. you might as well have a bunch of computers playing chess. being major assholes, scorching the earth, well. but telling people they have to suppress what was given to them and not give it back suppresses one of the points of the jury.

you can certainly be anti-scorched earth. i think it is good to generally be anti-scorched earth. i think lines were crossed, and i'm responsible for that, and i'm unreservedly sorry. i was legitimately angry and hurt, and i can't be sorry for that because that's just how it turned out, but i didn't have to manifest it like that. i certainly didn't need to say some of the things i said. some of the things i said i would not take back, and i would keep right there, but devaluing people instead of devaluing how they acted was when things went too far. and i'm sorry for that.

but if you're anti-bitter jury full stop, as many spectators appeared to be, i think you're anti-survivor. i need to say that right now. (reasonably? rationally? appropriately?) bitter juries are part of this game. if you think juries should reward best game and that's it with no emotion considered, i think you don't understand what survivor is about. and you probably voted for russell hantz for fan favourite. and that's pretty silly.

this has been a bit of a ramble but at the end of the day maybe if i had just yelled in my confessional instead no feelings would've been hurt and i would still have the weight off my chest. but what's done is done and it is regretted, unconditionally. but if this means we can't post dank memes any more then that is a loss too great for this community to bear
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Post Post #82 (ISO) » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:50 pm

Post by kloud1516 »

In post 76, Shadoweh wrote:
In post 74, kloud1516 wrote:Congratulations to Bella, Shadow, and the moderators for a great game. Now get thee to a music studio!

I'M SORRY ROBYN I LOVE YOU SO MUCH


I LOVE YOU, TOO! :D
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Post Post #83 (ISO) » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:50 pm

Post by Nyalite »

Like don't bury an apologize in your random and pretentious meta lecture that's ostensibly aimed at the people who called you out for crossing lines. Crossing lines on decorum, not for being bitter.

No one is taking issue with your opinion on what a jury should or shouldn't be. They took issue with the way you treated your fellow players.
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Post Post #84 (ISO) » Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:01 pm

Post by Shadoweh »

I almost forgot! OhGodMyLife, my eternal backstabby mafiaesque nemesis, after Coldplay's message to you I thought I would have a little fun. Did you notice that I sent you this?

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Post Post #85 (ISO) » Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:03 pm

Post by Fluminator »

Can someone summarize this game for me? This cast is amazing.
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Post Post #86 (ISO) » Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:13 pm

Post by hiplop »

I thought plan b was fluminator ^
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Post Post #87 (ISO) » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:44 pm

Post by Crazy »

Thank you mods and fellow players for an extremely fun game! The only disappointing part for me was not getting to play longer than I did.

Also, I have a scoring system and long-story short, Plan B killed it, and takes the new #1 position. If you're curious about the actual scoring method, you can see my confessional. :)
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Post Post #88 (ISO) » Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:46 pm

Post by Fluminator »

In post 86, hiplop wrote:I thought plan b was fluminator ^

Lol, nope. I would have been something like the Arrogant Worms. They would win the battle before the game even started.

I can't view the forum.
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Post Post #89 (ISO) » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:33 pm

Post by TheBreeze »

Good game

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Post Post #90 (ISO) » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:11 am

Post by Radja »

Congrats to those who want to be congratulated!
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Post Post #91 (ISO) » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:36 am

Post by xofelf »

If you were having issues viewing the forum, it should have ended up fixed last night.
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Post Post #92 (ISO) » Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:09 am

Post by OhGodMyLife »

Well the specs hated me at least as much as the players so that's a nice symmetry
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Post Post #93 (ISO) » Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:27 am

Post by Fluminator »

I can't don't have permission to view any posts as a guest.
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Post Post #94 (ISO) » Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:11 am

Post by Cephrir »

how about now
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Post Post #95 (ISO) » Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:47 am

Post by CuddlyCaucasian »

In post 92, OhGodMyLife wrote:Well the specs hated me at least as much as the players so that's a nice symmetry

I just want you to know that I only made a hate thread for you because I care about you so much <3
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Post Post #96 (ISO) » Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:06 am

Post by Crazy »

In post 92, OhGodMyLife wrote:Well the specs hated me at least as much as the players so that's a nice symmetry

I definitely didn't hate you, but I definitely felt like you were playing me with every breath. And while that was definitely kind of true, I actually found reading your confessional that you were a little more loyal to me than I thought.
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Post Post #97 (ISO) » Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:30 am

Post by Cheery Dog »

In post 92, OhGodMyLife wrote:Well the specs hated me at least as much as the players so that's a nice symmetry

I was only paranoid of you, no hate from me. But then I think the only think I had hated was Morcheeba's first message to me in this game.
And the way Robyn went.

Although if I'd been eliminated on Boy Bands, which was apparently likely (at least before wiggles went) I'd probably have hated more.
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Post Post #98 (ISO) » Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:47 am

Post by Shadoweh »

In post 92, OhGodMyLife wrote:Well the specs hated me at least as much as the players so that's a nice symmetry

MAYBE I WOULDA HATED YOU LESS IF YOU STOPPED SENDING YOUR GOONS AFTER ME, ALFRED!
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Post Post #99 (ISO) » Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:55 am

Post by OhGodMyLife »

In post 98, Shadoweh wrote:MAYBE I WOULDA HATED YOU LESS IF YOU STOPPED SENDING YOUR GOONS AFTER ME, ALFRED!
"the chatzy is cool but if I'm doing this right I'll get invited to it eventually anyway" NEVER!

What are goons for if I can't send them after you though? <3

In post 97, Cheery Dog wrote:I was only paranoid of you, no hate from me. But then I think the only think I had hated was Morcheeba's first message to me in this game.
And the way Robyn went.

Although if I'd been eliminated on Boy Bands, which was apparently likely (at least before wiggles went) I'd probably have hated more.

Yeah there's a good chance you would have been the target if we went to the first post shipwreck council, but only because such tiny tribes hardly left any room to maneuver. If we'd gone after the wiggles vote though you'd have had your choice of helping me get my irrational revenge or just knocking me out though :D

In post 96, Crazy wrote:I definitely didn't hate you, but I definitely felt like you were playing me with every breath. And while that was definitely kind of true, I actually found reading your confessional that you were a little more loyal to me than I thought.

My disappointment at our failure to capitalize on strong shipwreck challenge placement is overwhelming LOL

In post 95, CuddlyCaucasian wrote:I just want you to know that I only made a hate thread for you because I care about you so much <3

The whole spec forum was a hate on teeth thread!
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