The next mastina 13p pre-design

[Performer]

Informed Townie ("this game contains four mafia")
Disloyal Vigilante
3x Loyal Neighborizer
JOAT (Voyeur, Follower, Tracker, Doctor)
Watcher
VT x4

Vs.
Informed Mafioso ("this game contains 4 VTs")
Goon x2
Mafia Traitor
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Hmmm so we have basically a 3-shot cop in the loyal neighborizer, informed town, watcher, JOAT, disloyal vig (can function as cop too?)
vs informed team scum & informed non-team scum with 2 vanilla scum.

I think it's well balanced . This setup seems to rely a lot on individual skill rather than something more close ended (definite) like a Vigilante, Cop, Roleblocker, Jailkeeper, and so on.

I don't understand what is the intent of an informed team scum (mafioso) in this setup..? Unless the intent is for a situation of mass claim where the informed town says there are 4 mafia, then the mafia team having the "4 VTs" info can then POE who's likeliest Traitor?

[Performer]

Come to think of it, I want to suggest removal of Doctor from the JOAT's options. I think there are enough town pr options that if the JOAT protects a claimed pr, that compounds the chance of town swing for each extra phase.

[Performer]

So, final setup of...
Informed Townie ("this game contains four mafia")
Disloyal Vigilante
3x Loyal Neighborizer
JOAT (Voyeur, Follower, Tracker)
Watcher
VT x4

Vs.
Informed Mafioso ("this game contains 4 VTs")
Goon x2
Mafia Traitor

I think it's well balanced . Can't think of anything else to improve. I like that town has someone who knows there are 4 mafia in the 13p setup. Could create some craziness that mafia can manipulate .

I can imagine a later day phase where someone on the mafia team goes "no way X is town and knows there are 4 mafia - starting to think he's a traitor and needs to be lynched." Could be a strategy they use to protect team scum and have the "traitor" (actual informed townie) be lynched instead. Plus then their knowledge of 4 VTs with a lynched informed town, could help them poe the real Traitor.

The setup to me looks like a lot of basis on individual skill , which is great! Not saying close ended setups can't be great but I like this setup .
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Also, in a case of 4-man scum team worst case scenario for town:
d1: 4v9 with 13 players all alive
d2 after 2 deaths: 4v7
d3 after 2 more: 4v5 (lylo)

So town at least has 2 night phases, and at least can scum hunt itt .

[Performer]

One final thing before role PMs: would it affect balance at all to have all topics be daychat? (The mafia having it be public, of course.)

I think letting all topics have daychat function, definitely favors scum in the start....until the loyal neighborizer can at least get a townie into the hood, then I would think it balances out.

Is it possible to have daychat open for all people starting on d2 instead - but no daychat until then?

[Performer]

Yeah I think just not having day talk , would be better for balance.

[Performer]

Awesome! Thumbs up.

[Performer]

FFF.
Forgot to specify a detail in the neighborizer PM about only being able to use it three times. Sec, easy fix.

I saw the role title and thought , "that looks completely self explanatory so should be no big deal, should be ok" - but good catch!