cfj 13p pre-designed

[callforjudgement]

Town Vigliante
Town Simple Doctor
Town N1 Universal Backup
7× Vanilla Townie
Mafia Goon
Mafia Voyeur
Mafia Doctor Enabler

Haven't really thought about daytalk for this one, but it's likely on the townsided side and thus I'm leaning towards yes. (It doesn't serve any structural role in the setup.)

[callforjudgement]

Oh, and a role interaction ruling: if the Vigilante and Doctor both die N1, the Backup inherits the role of the player killed by scum (which must be the Vigilante in this case, as they wouldn't have shot themself).

[callforjudgement]

I agree that the power is primarily in an extra mislynch and a single conftown. I think that's a lot of power, though. (Also, I don't think the "two extra mislynches" scenario is as unlikely as you do, although it's still fairly unlikely.) It's worth noting that if the Vig dies N1, the UB becomes conftown too (this is a bit of a structural issue in the setup as it means that the scum are punished rather than rewarded for shooting the vig N1, but I can't see an obvious improvement).

The scum power is there partly to make it unlikely that the Doctor stops a vig kill on scum, and partly to suggest claims that won't break the setup in either direction. (The Doctor Enabler's also there to tone down what I believed to be the townsidedness of the setup, although apparently you disagree on that?) It's also to give a clear hierarachy of value among the scum (Voyeur > Goon > Enabler), which makes the decisions about who to bus/save a bit more interesting.

[callforjudgement]

(When you roll simple doctor you expect that there will be valuable VT's you might want to protect; I think being the simple doctor here would just feel bad.)

I'm assuming there may well be valuable VTs just based on the game's dayplay. Obviously, you can't affect this via setup design, but it's quite common for someone to end up obvtowning just by playing really townishly. That's the sort of valuable VT that the doctor is there to protect.

It's unclear what sort of power would need to replace that otherwise. I guess if it were more mechanically powerful, we could switch the doctor enabler to a vigilante enabler in order to compensate, but that feels a bit less elegant.

[callforjudgement]

The idea behind the Watcher being that if the Vig claims, you use it to find the Doctor and kill the Doctor the next night, the Vigilante the night afterwards? That would work in a large Large, although it seems a bit slow for a Mini or smaller Large.

I think the "protect the power role" interaction is mostly a negative one rather than a positive one, though (

especially

in a vig setup as it makes it rather more likely that town will buy a second extra mislynch). The setup's power-light, so the Simple Doctor can protect almost every slot as it is.

[callforjudgement]

I agree that it's hard to measure. I tried a thought experiment but it was inconclusive, and as far as I know there are no actual experiments. Results from truly-Nightless games suggest a fairly large effect, though, and anecdotally it seems like the death of a strong VT is often a serious blow to a town.

The main goals of the Doctor are to allow strong VTs to be kept alive and to give town a chance at earning the second mislynch (it also has some potential to confirm itself / a kill target via claiming to have stopped a kill, although of course the cause of a failed kill won't always be known). It's not meant to be a hugely strong power role, though; it's more just that the setup feels like it needs a protective.

[callforjudgement]

Oh, I also just noticed a modWIFOM aspect with the Doctor: if you save a VT one night, the scum will be scared to kill claimed power roles on future nights. That isn't intentional but I don't think it hurts?

[callforjudgement]

The point of the Doctor Enabler was to give scum a safeclaim that's believable as town in the setup – they're likely to claim their actual role, and it'd make sense as town just as well. It also serves to reduce swing a little if the Doctor Enabler dies early.

I think a weak investigative would mostly just add swing; either it does something useful, which gives town a huge advantage, or it doesn't, which doesn't. Weakening investigative roles is basically a case of reducing the probability that they hit, but it's hard to reduce the value of a hit much below 1 confirmation.

[callforjudgement]

I guess my issue is that although I'm not opposed to adding weak roles like that, I don't see how they help town. If you think the setup needs a 1-shot vanilla cop, we can add one; I think it's very unlikely to have any balance impact, so I'm not opposed to the change. I don't, however, understand it.

[callforjudgement]

I was about to write up the vanilla cop version, but noticed an action resolution issue: what happens if the vanilla cop and another town power role both die night 1? Unlike in the Vigilante case, it's not obvious who made which kill, so it's hard to write a fair rule for which role the Universal Backup inherits without leaking information.

[callforjudgement]

Right.

It seems pretty weird that we can have a Simple Doctor and a 0-shot Vanilla Cop die N1 and the UB can inherit the Vanilla Cop's lack of shot rather than the Doctor ability, but I guess it's at least consistent.

[callforjudgement]

Well, there's also a mod note about how to resolve the Universal Backup because its interaction with a vig hasn't been standardised yet. (If two town power roles die, the Universal Backup inherits the role of the player killed by scum.) Apart from that, we're done.

[callforjudgement]

Looks like we didn't discuss daytalk; I've written these role PMs assuming yes (in which case it needs to be stated in the game rules).

Town Vigilante

Welcome to

game name

! You are a

Town Vigilante

.

Each night, you may choose a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will be eliminated.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Town Simple Doctor

Welcome to

game name

! You are a

Town Simple Doctor

.

Each night, you may choose a player. If that player is a vanilla of their faction (Vanilla Townie or Mafia Goon), they will be protected from one kill that night. A player with any other role will not be protected.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Town Night 1 Universal Backup

Welcome to

game name

! You are a

Town Night 1 Universal Backup

.

You will inherit the role of the first town-aligned power role to die, but only if this happens on Night 1. (If this happens, I will PM you information on your new role.)

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Town 1-shot Vanilla Cop

Welcome to

game name

! You are a

Town 1-shot Vanilla Cop

.

Once in the game at night, you may choose a player. I will let you know whether or not that player is a vanilla of their faction (i.e. a Vanilla Townie or Mafia Goon).

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Results: "

target

is a vanilla of their faction"; "

target

" is not a vanilla of their faction".

Vanilla Townie

Welcome to

game name

! You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

You have no special abilities.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Mafia Goon

Welcome to

game name

! You are a

Mafia Goon

.

Your team-mates are

names

. You may talk to them

here

at any time, day or night.

Each night, if no other Mafia member is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will be eliminated.

You win if at least one Mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Mafia Voyeur

Welcome to

game name

! You are a

Mafia Voyeur

.

Your team-mates are

names

. You may talk to them

here

at any time, day or night.

Each night:

• If no other Mafia member is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will be eliminated.
  
• If you do not perform the nightkill, you may instead target a player to learn the nature of any other night actions performed on them.

You win if at least one Mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Results: "No night actions targeted

target

last night"; "

target

was the target of a protective action last night"; "

target

was the target of an investigative action last night";

target

was the target of a killing action last night". (The Vigilante and scum nightkill will give "killing"; the Doctor "protective", the Vanilla Cop "investigative".)

Mafia Doctor Enabler

Welcome to

game name

! You are a

Mafia Doctor Enabler

.

Your team-mates are

names

. You may talk to them

here

at any time, day or night.

Each night, if no other Mafia member is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will be eliminated.

If you are eliminated, all Doctors will effectively lose their role from the following night onwards, becoming unable to protect people.

You win if at least one Mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

I've listed only the result PMs that can actually happen in the setup (the roles in question have more possible results in other setups, but not in this one).

[callforjudgement]

Action resolution:
- The Universal Backup should be told what role they inherit, if they inherit one. If no town power role dies on N1, they don't inherit any role and effectively become a townie with no abilities (although they don't become vanilla; they still have an ability, it just doesn't do anything).
- If two town power roles die N1, choose the player killed by scum as the player who determines which role is given to the Universal Backup; they don't get both roles.
- If the Vanilla Cop is inherited, the Universal Backup only gains the

remaining

uses of the Vanilla Cop ability. They may end up with no uses left, as a consequence. (Let them know how many uses remain when they inherit the role.)
- The Simple Doctor protects only players who were Vanilla Townies or Mafia Goons at the start of the setup; backups, running out of shots, being disabled, etc. don't change that.
- The Voyeur doesn't see their own action, but can see the actions of other scum.
- When the Mafia Doctor Enabler dies, the Doctor becomes useless on all future Nights. (They should know about this from seeing a Doctor Enabler flip; it's probably best to post in thread something like "Doctor actions are no longer usable" to explain to people who might not know what an Enabler does.)
- The scum kill doesn't prevent actions from working (although if they kill an investigative, the action is mostly wasted because only an eliminated player gets to see the results, and thus can't tell the other players what they were).