the worst's Mini Normal Review, January 2020

[mastina]

I'm not primary so it's not my call but uhhh...this setup seems incredibly ridiculously like 70+% scumsided to me? (As in, 70% seems conservative and a more liberal estimate would be in the 80-90 percentile range, scum win.)

[mastina]

Scum ascetic is one of the strongest roles scum can have.
Scum are already the informed minority--giving them additional information increases the odds they will win.
The play on information is likely to falsely conftown a scumslot or falsely damn a town slot, either of which vastly increases the odds the scum will win.
Strongman is one of the strongest scum roles possible, especially in a game where the majority of the town's strength comes from a role the strongman punctures (the rolestopper).
Town roles have incredible anti-synergy. Roleblocker and rolestopper very easily can interfere with each other, roleblocker can block the cop, rolestopper can rolestop the cop's target, and these outcomes make the cop less able to generate reliable results--in a setup where one scum already has immunity to the cop (ascetic).

Literally everything in this setup stacks things in the scum's favor and the town has literally nothing going for it.
Plus, MBoS 4 should be a fair indication of what happens when scum are informed of a town role that is informed of the existence of a role in the game but not what alignment said role was.

You know what happened that game?
The town cop role successfully 'crumbed to the scum role, and vice-versa...allowing the scum to make a N1 nightkill on the cop role without any consequence because nobody in the town had the information to pick up on the 'crumb and the information per Normal standards doesn't flip with them so they had no way of gaining said info.

[mastina]

Lets start here
1) Is it possible to disable the ascetic if the doctor makes the kill? I think that would dissuade the ascetic from making kills.

That is not Normal.

Either the mentioned setup where that happened was while we had a Greylist, or the reviewers for that game missed that the mechanic wasn't Normal. 'Modified' is not among our list of whitelisted modifiers.

You can obtain a similar result with Activated as a modifier:
Mafia Doctor Activated Ascetic, with no multitasking.
This would force them to choose: protect, activate their ascetic, or nightkill.
But as that was written, no, that wasn't Normal.

(For the record, Mafia Doctor Activated Ascetic, is a significantly weaker role. Still way too strong tho.)

2) Would a combined follower tracker be enough power or would that need to be a rolecop instead?

So that'd be a proposed:
Town Informed Cop (there's a doctor)
Town odd night Roleblocker
Town Rolestopper
Town Combined Follower/Tracker

vs.
Scum Informed Doctor Activated Ascetic (there is a cop)
Informed Goon (there's an odd-night roleblocker)
Even Night Strongman

In this setup, I would say things are significantly closer to balanced, but the scum are still too strong even with the nerf to the Doctor/Ascetic--they probably need 2/3 further nerfs of,
{Remove the cop information, remove the odd-night roleblocker information, further gate the strongman}, but that's mostly my opinion; PP as the primary reviewer has the final word on that call.

[mastina]

It's going to be a swingy as fuck game but eyeballing that setup as per 25, I'd call it probably ~50/50 in balance.

[mastina]

We actually have a standardized page for follower/voyeur results.

It's poorly named, but check out the NAR/Normal Game subpage, where every possible role type is listed.

[mastina]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ormal_Game
This page lists how actions should show.

[mastina]

The relevant part:

Commute - Commuter (not that a follower or voyeur can actually get this result but IN THEORY...)
Blocking - Roleblocker, Rolestopper, Alien (all three show as 'Blocking' to a follower/voyeur)
Jailkeep - Jailkeeper (a jailkeeper shows as 'jailkeeper' to a follower/voyeur)
Protection - Doctor, Bodyguard, Babysitter (when it protects) (all of these show as 'protection' to a follower/voyeur)
Miscellaneous - Neighborizer, Friendly Neighbor, Hider, Fruit Vendor, Visitor, Mailman (all of these show as 'miscellaneous' to a follower/voyeur)
Kill - Mafia factional kill, SK factional kill, Strongman, Vigilante, Babysitter (when it kills)
Role Investigation - Cop, Gunsmith, Role Cop, Vanilla Cop, Neapolitan, Psychologist, Detective, Traffic Analyst, PT Cop
Action Investigation - Tracker, Watcher, Voyeur, Follower, Motion Detector

You get the idea.
This covers every single interaction except for oddball cases like Combined roles. (For instance, would a combined tracker/watcher show up as one action investigation, or two? Would a combined tracker/neighborizer show up as "performed a miscellaneous/action investigation action", or as "performed a miscellaneous action and an action investigation action"? Things like that are...somewhat less defined.)

[mastina]

Why is that on the NAR page and not the Follower page?

Heck if I know. I agree that it's way too obscure.