borkjerfkin Micro Normal Review

[borkjerfkin]

I copied that from someone else's ruleset forever ago (and have used it in i think literally every game i have ever modded) I will just change it to say majority

[borkjerfkin]

I didnt say half plus two anywhere though

[borkjerfkin]

If its pro town its pro town. I have no prior art, just the knowledge that setups are generally more scumsided than they seem

[borkjerfkin]

i have no problem giving scum some power if we need to

[borkjerfkin]

If we give scum power, I would change 2x goon to (1x odd-night rolecop 1x even night rolecop) as something a little different from 1x rolecop 1x goon

[borkjerfkin]

Interesting how far off the mark I was. Micros are hard.

I really want the mason pair, and I want something else besides that that increases level of interest. If that's just to give scum power then so be it.

[borkjerfkin]

Rules look fine (a very pedantic reading of "days will be exactly two weeks long" implies you have to hold twilight out until the original deadline ends, but I don't think anyone would interpret it like that). I'm assuming this is not a daytalk setup because you didn't say it was (and in a Normal, you'd have to), but you should probably be more explicit about that.

There's no daytalk; I will add that to the setup-specific post I make.

[borkjerfkin]

I guess maybe my issue is I have a warped idea about how powerful a mason pair is; they're probably more power in smaller setups than I was budgeting for too.

[borkjerfkin]

could change the roleblocker to even night and give scum a 1x/2x day-rolecop or something, i dunno.

[borkjerfkin]

I would want to change the whole setup to yes daytalk if I did that.

[borkjerfkin]

or give an encryptor or whatever. it's not super important that the masons get daytalk -- i'd actually prefer the masons not to be able to talk at all.

[borkjerfkin]

I would argue the value of that scum pr is essentially nil

Are we saying that 2 mason vs goons is townsided as a baseline? I am curious if there is any precedent there

[borkjerfkin]

Closest thing i can see to this setup is that 7p science one, which has scum winning 8 of 9. Town gets an extra lynch here.

[borkjerfkin]

I thought they stopped running c9 because that particular variation was like impossible to win for town

[borkjerfkin]

I mean if you guys say 2 masons is balanced i am fine with that, i just really didnt think it would be

[borkjerfkin]

Probably insufficient sample size anyway (only two documented runs of the setup, one of which is mistakingly labeled as a town win)

[borkjerfkin]

I think Masons not having daytalk really struggle, especially if scum does. As in, with just that and VTs against scum I'd consider it scumsided - the strength in Masons imo comes equally from being able to coordinate votes/claims/reads strategies or whatever, as much as the "get out of lynch free" card that the Mason claim inherently provides does.

sorry if that made no sense it's late

but I also think a Town RB vs 2 goons is also townsided. in the sense that even though we might often call scumsided setups balanced, the potential guilting or clearing situations a RB provides are just so... clear-cut? that like it can instantly flip a game for town or turn a slight advantage into a steamroll. idk. I don't think I've ever been comfortable seeing that available right out the gate.

You ok with 2 masons vs goons and no daytalk for anyone? That is what I am leaning toward.

[borkjerfkin]

I think the soft-confirmability of a third town PR is a bit of an issue in a 9p and it's something I didn't take into account. Not sure I feel comfortable adding a 3rd town PR and nothing else - scum would absolutely have to have something in order for anyone to believe that 2 masons + third minor PR claim that that claim isn't legit.

[borkjerfkin]

At the same time I don't think anyone can look at this vs any of the 2 PR matrix 6 setups and say that this is townsided in the least. The masons encourage scum to do nothing but keep their head down and claim VT.

Maybe I give daytalk to everyone, but does that help town?

I'm starting to think this setup is not well suited to this game size.

[borkjerfkin]

Maybe masons is the wrong way to go here.

Roleblocker + innocent child maybe. Not sure scum would need anything vs that.

[borkjerfkin]

still seems strictly worse than JK9 though

[borkjerfkin]

ok let's do it. I'm willing to run that (with nighttalk only) if everyone is willing to sign off on that.

Obviously you can discount the roleblocker PM.

[borkjerfkin]

what do you think marquis?