mastina's Mini Normal Review

[mhsmith0]

A bit unusual setup, need to null it over.

I'm really not worried about "what if scum joat dies d1". If scum can't protect their pr at least through d1 then they probably deserve to lose, so the idea that it put them in a tough situation doesn't really bother me.

[mhsmith0]

OK so starting from conceptual framework...

6 VT, 4 PR
vs 2 goons, 1 PR

Spoiler: town wins

1560 *
1689 *
1707 *
1720 *
1734
1757
1767
1787
1833 *

Spoiler: scum wins

1499
1570
1609 *
1655
1699 *
1708
1719
1728
1805

Throwing out the games where the scum PR was an encryptor (the * ones), you get a town record of 5-7. Looking at what are IMO the most comparable setups (tossing mason setups, as well as 1499 and postie's open setup 1791) you get:

Spoiler: comparable setups

1570 scum win
2-shot JK, tracker, doctor, 1-shot day vig
vs 2-shot rb

1708 scum win (iffier comparison)
1-shot GS, even cop, backup, JK
vs 1-shot tracker

1728 scum win
motion detector, follower, 1-shot neighborizer, 2-shot cop
vs odd night role cop

1787 town win (a bit underpowered for town compared to some others here)
macho, bodyguard, macho cop, voyeur
vs tracker

1805 scum win
3-shot vig, role cop neighbor, role cop neighbor, 1-shot BP backup miller
vs 1-shot power absorber

So as a concept, town is relatively more powered than the typical 6 active town PR, 1 active scum PR setup we've seen, but at the same time I don't think the difference is massive, and scum are 4-1 in those setups.

So off the cuff, I'm thinking it ought to be close to balanced.

You have:
1 not quite full cop (limited shot AND gunsmith/nea are not hard results, as far as the player knows)
1 not quite full tracker (essentially a 3-shot tracker with follower better than tracker and motion detector worse)
1 not quite full protective (doc/JK are 1-shots, and the BG is nearly useless other than protecting a hard clear for an extra day, since by the time you use it on N3 or N4, everyone's shots are probably done anyway)
1 pretty meh PR with limited shots
vs
1 scum PR that's pretty helpful, all things considering

Like, if you had
3-shot cop
3-shot tracker
3-shot doctor
3-shot rolecop
vs
2-shot roleblocker

That seems reasonably balanced for the most part. Highly swingy on whether the roleblocker is caught early on, since that role can really do a number on town PRs, including via strongman shot and resulting WIFOM about for real PR claims.

[mhsmith0]

I suppose I could be a wiseass and suggest that you flip the motion detector and the rolecop, so that you now get two town PRs that get a gunsmith "guilty", but I'm not sure that's a meaningful difference.

You basically have gunsmith/tracker/doctor/rolecop (3 shot each) against a roleblocker (3 shot ish - ninja works a bit weirdly with it). It's extremely unlikely that you'll have town PRs making an active difference in late game (and late game town derp is definitely a thing once the PR gifts stop raining down from the sky), and you have a pretty strong scum PR that can do a lot of damage.

I don't mind tweaking along the edges, but I don't think that it really requires a fundamental redesign.

[mhsmith0]

Plan b is unacceptable for me, far too much scum power against two useful joats and a tracker joat that is basically junk. Even with zero scum power I'd be hesitant.

Plan a is I think in the ballpark of right, but it's getting pushback from other reviewers. If there's a fundamental disagreement about balance I don't mind subbing out, but I will not approve a substantial town nerf compared to that setup.

[mhsmith0]

I mean if you just want to have a random something you could always give a crappy power for the 3rd slot like voyeur, fruit vendor, motion detector, etc

[mhsmith0]

sure. i got no issue w weird fwiw

[mhsmith0]

Setupwise I'm good with it.

I think I'm good with the OP (mod color of black isn't my thing since I use mafblack, but that's stylistic and not an actual objection).

Role PM notes:

1) For tracker/follower, I'd make the language similar to cop/nea, etc, i.e.

You will receive a result of "playername visited playername", "playername did not go anywhere", "no result"

2) I'd tweak strongman language, since technically hider/commuter are graylist and can defeat it, so something like

If you use this ability, your kill will not be able to be blocked by abilities such as doctor, jailkeeper, roleblocker, or bulletproof

. If you're ok with scum knowing that there are no hiders/commuters, I'm ok with it, but if that's not an intentional thing, then I'd tweak it.

Both of those are kind of nitpicky though, so I don't really have a major issue if you would rather just keep them as is (especially #2).

I'd also suggest you update your proposed role PMs since powers slightly changed.

But overall I'm good with htis.

[mhsmith0]

/approve

[mhsmith0]

I think most review threads don't get released, but I think it's more lack of priority than specific intent.