drealmerz7's Mini Normal Review

mhsmith0 · Post Post #33 (isolation #0) » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:15 am

In post 30, drealmerz7 wrote:TOWN:

Jailer
1-shot BulletProof 3-shot Doctor
1-shot Vigilante
BodyGuard
Compulsive BodyGuard
VT
VT
VT
VT

MAFIA:

2-shot Strongman Mafia Roleblocker - can't use strongman+RB on same Night
1-shot Strongman Mafia Doctor - can't use strongman+doc on same Night
Mafia Goon

2-shot Strongman Serial Killer

GroupScumsided.
1) Make the sk 2-shot bp

2) scum get ONE role not multiple, so you get
Goon
Mafia doctor
Mafia 1-shot strongman (they do NOT need a Roleblocker here)

3) town needs a boost
Jailer
Bodyguard (low utility)
Compulsive bodyguard (debatably NU role)
3-shot doctor (combined roles that aren't JOATS are weird and possibly non-normal)
JOAT (cop / vig / commuter)
4x vt

Off the cuff, that seems closer to balanced.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #34 (isolation #1) » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:16 am

I'm also fine with cutting scum to two players and substantially nerfing town power; 10/2/1 is relatively common.

I'll look up 9/3/1 setups that have run and try and get better comparisons over the weekend.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #49 (isolation #2) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:45 am

Isn't it 8/3/1 or 9/3/1? I didn't see the fourth scum.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #51 (isolation #3) » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:54 am

9/3/1 as presented is probably scum sided (presuming that you just meant to add a vt). Imo 8/4/1 is not a reasonable setup given site norms for mini normals. Iirc we've never had a four man scum team or five scum overall in a 13p mini normal game.

I may dig to find that, but it's sufficiently far outside balance norms that I'm extremely uncomfortable w it as a concept barring decent evidence that it would actually match up w any kind of precious history. Scum PRs are pretty op, and given extra numbers to boot, I think it's a problematic combo.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #70 (isolation #4) » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:10 am

a history of 9/3/1 from 1400 on

Spoiler:

Scum do not need ANYTHING like the power you're giving them.

I'm fine with scum having something like (if you want everyone to have something)

2 1-shot roleblockers
1 1-shot doc
(or a 1-shot strongman, a 1-shot rb, and a 1-shot doc if you'd prefer)

and the SK has a 1-shot BP, MAYBE a 1-shot strongman too

then you can take all the BPs off of the town PRs, which is both non-normal and unnecessary given that you'd give scum a huge # of strongman shots anyway, and you're left with

town
jailkeeper
2-shot vig
bodyguard
compulsive bodyguard
5 VT

scum
three 1-shot roles

SK
1-shot BP, maybe a 1-shot strongman too

mhsmith0 · Post Post #77 (isolation #5) » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:28 am

I'll take a closer look at this tonight, sorry for delay on my end.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #80 (isolation #6) » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:57 am

In post 71, drealmerz7 wrote:did you take into account those games having daychat or not? mine will not have day chat (which I think makes scum much more powerful)
taking a look at your notes

Some scum teams put day chat to very good use, others don't. In general it's a boost but not considered massive; then again, given that I've argued that the format is groupscum-sided, them having day chat would seem to make that more of an issue, not less.

In post 73, drealmerz7 wrote:smith, I want all of the WIFOM of the BPs+strongman shots mixed with the RB, JK, Doc stuff
"then you can take all the BPs off of the town PRs, which is both non-normal and unnecessary given that you'd give scum a huge # of strongman shots anyway, and you're left with"
it's non-normal? like it actually doesn't pass the setup anyway because that much isn't allowed in "normal" ? is that what you mean? or it's just not normal (like, I'm not normal)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=29549 is the mini-normal achrives. Over hundreds of games, there has never been a role as you propose. So it'd be, at the very least, gray-listed to have a role work that way, and per normal guidelines, you're limited to one gray-listed (not on the white list) role in a mini-normal game.

In post 74, drealmerz7 wrote:I like them having to choose between doing the kill with strongman or using their ability - it's fun deciding and tactical decision making
I'm taking potential claimings into consideration with all of this and the balance and how it would unfold potentially in various runs

The basic issue is that scum simply don't need that much power. You've given them active counters to basically everything that town has, when in general, the night kill is already a counter to town power, and further scum power is typically designed to overcome especially strong town power roles and/or especially strong synergy among town power roles. Three goon games are common. Here are, for instance, town's power and results in the last 10 3-goon mini normal games (scum is 7-3 in those):

Spoiler:

In post 75, drealmerz7 wrote:the powers aren't there for the sides to use to analyze and then win the game
the powers are there to build WIFOM to analyze and sort the truth from the lies so that who wins the game is either 1.) who is more skilled at deceit vs. 2.) who is more skilled at discovering the deceit

Powers are supposed to be there to help town win compared to a fully mountainous format and/or be claimable to prevent mislynches (scum powers are essentially there in the event you gave town too much, so that balance is maintained). If they're there just to fuck with the players, that's a problem. WIFOM can be part of the design (for instance, giving town double doctors along with some kind of scum strongman or roleblocker to counter that power), but in general is not intended to be the purpose of creating PRs.

In post 76, drealmerz7 wrote:I'm really not trying to be difficult, I was hoping for some more fluid back and forth and argument about it all. I like discussing and poring over the shit, it's a passion, and nothing is personal so, let's just dig in to it. Tell me it's fucking stupid or just not happening in any sort of complexity that I have it or whatever and let me get on with it.
smith, I do want clarification if by "not normal" you mean in terms of actual guidelines (in which case please use the words "explictly not permitted" so I know because "normal" is such a poor term, and confuses me because of how I'm used to it being used on my HS [where games are either NORMAL or BASTARD and there's no greylists or whitelists or any shit like that])

It's not necessarily stupid, it's just not normal to have powers in that substantial level of complexity. People play mini normal games with a certain expectation of setup; most games are 10v3 with a reasonably consistent level of faction power/balance (some games are 3x goons with lower town power, others are more power on both sides), and then some games are 9/2/2 or have a SK (as you propose here).
Normal game guidance is at https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game, but that'
I think that the kind of really complex designed game you really have in mind is fine for a theme game (and that doesn't mean it's bastard, just that it's non-normal), but it's less fine for a normal game.
One example of this is your proposed composite roles. Per normal standards, JOAT roles (1-shot x, 1-shot y, 1-shot z) are normal, but something where a "JOAT" has unlimited x and 1/2 shots of y is not normal. Everything being 1-shot is inherent in a normal JOAT role, per https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... all-trades, and JOATs are the only composite role that is considered normal. So if you wanted a single role that had a 1-shot BP AND was full jk, or 1-shot strongman AND was full roleblocker, that would be your single allowed non-normal role.

In post 79, Firebringer wrote:
In post 66, drealmerz7 wrote:2x-BulletProof JailKeeper
1x-BulletProof 1x-Strongman 2x-Vigilante
1x-BulletProof Compulsive BodyGuard

2x-Strongman 2x-RoleBlocker
1x-Strongman 1x-Doctor

1x-BulletProof 2x-Strongman Serial Killer
Okay bulletproofs need to go as Msmith said, those are non normal additions to those roles.
You can have one non normal role, but this will have to flip in its entirety if the role dies.

Compulsive is also a non normal modifier so that would have to go, I also don't see many BGs not act? (Some do because they think they are invaluable but thats another thing).

Strongman for town is also non normal I believe.

So:

Jail keep
Bodyguard
2x Vigilante

2x strongman role blocker is also non normal.
So is a strongman doctor.

1 shot Doctor
2 shot Strongman or 2 shot Roleblocker

I am going to take your final role the serial killer as your white list role here:
1 bulletproof 2x strongman Serial Killer.

Probably still scum sided a bit here. With Doctor being able to protect scum. Vigilante more likely to shoot town. Depends more on if strongman is given to scum or role blocker.

FB is correct actually about compulsive being a non-normal role as well; I'd forgotten about that one.

PS As a note of consideration, if you think that the modifications that we're talking about are too much of a change to the game you want to run (and that's fine if so), you may be better off just running an open setup in the open queue, and then running your preferred setups as theme games. Per https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... quirements, you're required to have 1 completed mod game before you can do any theme games, but it doesn't have to be a normal; you can just bang out an open game (which usually fill pretty fast anyway) and once that's finished, be someone who's demonstrated that they're not going to flake out, unreasonably mod-kill players, or have anything else bad about your moderation capabilities/tendencies.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #81 (isolation #7) » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:00 am

PPS the open queue mod list is about 7 long (was briefly low for a bit), so that might actually take a while to go through (I'd thought it was lower)

So I'd probably still suggest going through the normal game review process if you want to get your first one done faster (since you'd be up pretty fast once the review is done, and I think there's a demand to fill the list among players too).

So I guess the question is, given that you can't have composite roles (or at least not more than one), what would you like your role distribution to be here? I'd made a suggestion earlier, FB did the same, but while we're here to review game for balance/normality, it's still your call about how you want it structured (even if it is something where we're vetoing a lot of stuff that you want)

mhsmith0 · Post Post #83 (isolation #8) » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:20 am

FWIW there's some lack of clarity to normal guidelines that we'll probably do some work to tweak over the coming months.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #96 (isolation #9) » Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:59 pm

In post 86, drealmerz7 wrote:TOWN:

3-shot JailKeeper
2-shot Vigilante
Compulsive BodyGuard
BodyGuard
5VanillaTown

SCUM:

2-shot Mafia RoleBlocker
1-shot Strongman Mafia
Mafia Goon

1-shot BulletProof 2-shot Strongman Serial Killer - is the BP here non-normal as well? will remove it but I wasn't sure if the BPs that you said to take off were just town's or not

the compulsive BG is my non-normal one, that is not going to change, so yup

I actually need to check on the SK whether you can composite like that or not. might be a no. It's definitely going to be super swingy, probably prone to mod WIFOM due to double bodyguards too.

I'd actually say to make the JK or the vig full; one full, the other gated. Bodyguards are trash powers, and especially so with one of them compulsive; town should have at least one legitimately strong role here for balance; only 4 town PRs, with two of them trash (BGs), and the other two gates (jk/vig), agianst three group scum (with three shots of very good power) and an sk, is still too hard on town.

I might actually suggest turning the SK into a 2-shot BP (no strongman at all), and then it will make the night game super difficult to figure out because bullets and protects/blocks will just turn it chaos-y pretty fast, especially with zero investigative power.

I'd actually suggest to tweak to:

Town
Jailkeeper
2-shot vig
compulsive bg
bg
5 vt

scum
1-shot roleblocker (don't see why town or sk is strong enough to need two shots)
1-shot strongman (useful against sk and/or jk)
goon

serial killer
2-shot bp

In post 92, Firebringer wrote:
In post 90, drealmerz7 wrote:also, do I get to choose whether the strongman kill when meeting a BG ALSO kills the BG, or simply bypasses the BG? or is simply that the kill bypasses the BG?
kill bypasses bg. At least I am 90% sure thats how it works here.

Correct. I'm not certain about the order betrween bodyguard and bulletproof; I THINK that the bulletproof goes first but I can look that up

mhsmith0 · Post Post #98 (isolation #10) » Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:37 pm

I don't think it's ok for an SK to lack a BP in a game with 3 scum and a gated rb and a gated strongman and where town has a (gated) vig.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #101 (isolation #11) » Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:42 pm

the rb can't block a scum kill going on the sk though, rb could also block the jk in general. I might say make the SK an odd night strongman, MAYBE even full strongman, if you're gonna drop the BP. If SK townsides, scum can kill him. If he scumsides, town can kill him. Super hard needle to thread, especially in a super high role count game.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #102 (isolation #12) » Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:44 pm

also, no bp makes sk vulnerable to a final 4 of 2/1/1 where roles are known, and either there's a no lynch or a town lynch and sk/scum shoot each other. SK should generally win that arrangement IMO.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #107 (isolation #13) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:18 am

I think we can make a serial killer JOAT (bp/strongman), I'm checking whether passive BP violates JOAT rules or not; send a PM to nexus to get his take.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #108 (isolation #14) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:28 am

Nexus said we can relax guidance for an SK, which leaves us with (I think)

Town
Jailkeeper
2-shot vig
compulsive bg
bg
5 vt

scum
1-shot roleblocker (don't see why town or sk is strong enough to need two shots)
1-shot strongman (useful against sk and/or jk)
goon

serial killer
1-shot bp, 1-shot strongman

is that consistent with peoples' understanding? What is everyone's thoughts on that potential setup?

mhsmith0 · Post Post #110 (isolation #15) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:39 am

Town needs either vig or jk to be a full role to be at all close to balanced. Two gated PRs and two shitty PRs (compulsive bg is debatably negative utility) are WAY too little for town in this setup.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #112 (isolation #16) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:40 am

I also don't understand why scum needs two roleblocking shots AND a strongman shot when sk and town power both largely suck.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #116 (isolation #17) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:52 am

In post 113, drealmerz7 wrote:strongman is so he can do more damage to SK and/or allow the BGs to stay alive (whether they protect a VT or the SK or anything in between)
odds are 1 of the roleblock shots will simply be a wasted shot - hell, odds are that both will be wasted shots

What strongman actually does, presuming competent play, is to be used on the SK or a key town PR (jk or vig). A strongman shot is pro-scum, with merely a chance it gets used on the SK instead of a town PR.

The roleblock shot is also substantially likely to be used against town power, again presuming competent play by scum team. Strongman and roleblock are both abilities that can smoke the jailkeeper, especially if the shots are saved until a useful mid game point in time.

In post 114, drealmerz7 wrote:it also adds to mod-wifom and to mechanics meaning less to the game-solving and scum-hunting meaning more

Mainly it adds confusion to the mechanics, which rather than scum-hunting meaning more, just means that town is likely to engage in mediocre to bad setup spec in lieu of scum-hunting and (in this setup at least) be punished for it (the bodyguards thinking they're mutual CCs being an especially obvious possibility). A mini normal setup that emphasizes scum-hunting would be single ball, with scum team getting 3 goons (or 2 goons and an encryptor), and town getting limited but non-zero power, such as some of the following 3-goon setups:

1843: town gets 3 masons
1827: town gets 1-shot vig, 1-shot dayvig, neapolitan, bodyguard
1758: town gets 3 masons
1741: town gets a hider, a 2-shotwatcher, a 1-shot bp
1705: town gets 2 masons and a neapolitan
etc

You say you want a setup that emphasizes scum-hunting, but what you've actually created is a setup that enables town to waste its time with setup spec and then very likely punishes it for said waste. In general, if you create a setup that screws with town's ability to accurately read into night actions, or that creates apparent CCs that town may end up lynching into, you're supposed to give town MORE power to compensate. Here you really haven't (even in the current iteration), but since it's not single ball it's a setup where you expect a lesser win rate for town just due to more factions.

In post 115, drealmerz7 wrote:I could make the vig 1-shot if you think that helps

Taking power away from town would make it worse, not better. I kind of think it'd be better making the vig odd night rather than 2-shot, but I want to see where the other reviewers are on the subject of balance at this point. If you want the roleblocker to be 2-shot instead of 1-shot, I'll probably push for the vig to be better than 2-shot, since town needs more power to counteract the roleblocking.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #121 (isolation #18) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:32 am

Normals need to be approved for normalcy and balance. I'll let fire and nexus weigh in a bit about what their balance thoughts are; I don't want to go too far down one road without seeing what they think.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #126 (isolation #19) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:46 am

In post 124, Nexus wrote:Yeah we can approve for Normality but not balance, I think?

You're in charge of policy, so sure. I do think that we should make it explicit that it's not approved for balance though. Hopefully players aren't really upset at us for allowing it to go through.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #134 (isolation #20) » Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:06 pm

I'm ok given the ok for non-balance.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #154 (isolation #21) » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:13 pm

No, jailkeeper is doc plus roleblock, not roleblock plus rolestop.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #155 (isolation #22) » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:14 pm

See
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Jailkeeper

Apparently there IS a rolestop variant, but that's non normal.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #157 (isolation #23) » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:32 pm

Oh duh. Reading is good

mhsmith0 · Post Post #158 (isolation #24) » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:34 pm

Sk wincon also applies if there are two alive and he's one of them.

Mafia wincon is typically when they get an outright majority or nothing can prevent that from happening. "When mafia is in control" is probably more vague than I'd like, tho I'm not sure what the best working for a sk game would be.

Roleblocker pm should specify whether he can roleblock and kill simulateously.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #168 (isolation #25) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:59 am

Is it normal for an sk to be able to win Posthumously? Typically one town one scum means scum win, even if the town is a vig or something.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #171 (isolation #26) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:51 am

In post 161, drealmerz7 wrote:BG dies first
Compulsive BG dies 2nd
JK dies 3rd

(if any of them target the same target and that target is selected for a NK)

Jk does not die from his target being shot. Is that a typo or did you actually intend that result?

In post 169, drealmerz7 wrote:I would definitely qualify that as no one winning

and would list it as "Town Lost"

That is not a normal wincon resolution. I'm 80% sure that this would be a scum win, but I'll defer to nexus here.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #173 (isolation #27) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:41 am

JK doesn't die if a strongman kills the jk'd target. Only the target dies.

I'm getting a bit concerned about resolution of wincon and NA's...

1) If there's one scum and one town vig left, who wins? This 100% needs to be resolved before game starts

2) If jailkeeper and roleblocker target each other, what happens? This is primarily relevant if the RB is jailed and then shot at (by town vig or SK, presuming not using a strongman shot there)

3) If a bodyguard targets someone with a BP, and that someone is shot, is the BP lost or is the bodyguard dead?

mhsmith0 · Post Post #178 (isolation #28) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:40 am

It should have, it wasn't, so now we need to solve this. Fortunately we have at least a 24 hour period since it's not like the game filled yet.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #179 (isolation #29) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:43 am

Nexus, you're the normal listmod, what are the options for wincons with 1:1 town vig and scum? Is that something mod can decide, or is it scum win at that point? My thought was it was a scum win automatically.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #181 (isolation #30) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:47 am

In that case, everyone dead (after SK dies) means a 2-way draw? 3-way draw? I'm pretty sure "everyone loses" is not going to be something that people will be ok with, but some kind of predetermined rule on who gets into the draw makes sense to me.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #183 (isolation #31) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:52 am

"Town loss" as in scum win? SK win? Scum-SK draw? What I want to be clear on is who wins and who doesn't in that case.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #186 (isolation #32) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:09 am

3-way draw and total loss are different. Every game is either a win or a draw; in particular, scum would be LIVID at you if you gave them an outright loss after they hit parity with the SK dead.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #189 (isolation #33) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:25 am

In post 187, drealmerz7 wrote:ok then yeah 3way draw

I didn't realize it mattered so much at all, hahah, geez

Some people really care about their $tat$

Also in a game that will probably take over a month, people are going to probably be invested in the result just as a matter of nature

mhsmith0 · Post Post #190 (isolation #34) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:28 am

In post 188, drealmerz7 wrote:hell, if anything, if it is 1v1v1 and the towny draws the lynch, it should be a town win!!! but no, 3 way draw (loss!!!)

If this is the case, then you need to be REALLY clear to the serial killer that this is the case. I'd suggest something like:

you win when all other players are dead and you are alive, or nothing can prevent this from happening

SK getting boned over by 1v1'ng with a scum wtih a strongman shot left is pretty sketchy IMO, but you're the mod and can make your VC's. But as a reviewer I'm going to insist that they be clear, because you WILL get strong complaints from an SK who eats a draw instead of a win after 1v1'ing with scum or a town vig

mhsmith0 · Post Post #192 (isolation #35) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:40 am

If you're doing weird conditionals (if SK loses BP and has strongman, and vig/SK shoot each other, both die anyway so I don't see why strongman would matter for wincon), I think you need to explicitly lay out who wins given SK 1v1 with anyone:

When does SK win
When is it a draw

mhsmith0 · Post Post #195 (isolation #36) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:54 am

In post 193, drealmerz7 wrote:you have to be alive to win, so yeah, a simple wincon of "you win if you or anyone related to your faction is alive at the end of the game"

If you say that, then SK will rightfully presume any 1v1 is an auto win for him.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #196 (isolation #37) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:55 am

That is probably acceptable wincon language for groupscum though.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #197 (isolation #38) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:56 am

You could also just pull language from open games with a possible SK

C9++
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9%2B%2B

Town
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Groupscum
You win when the Mafia obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

SK
You win when you are the last player alive or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #200 (isolation #39) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:10 am

OK, please post your updated role PMs (and please clarify what the actual result of an "everyone dies" outcome is, and/or if it's conditional on more info, what that more info is)

mhsmith0 · Post Post #206 (isolation #40) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:34 pm

1) Why are day phases 12 days and nights 3? 2 day night phases is pretty standard. wrt 12 days, while I'm probably ok with you not being upfront with players about what makes it subject to change, I'd like to know what sort of things might change it. Would you ever cut a deadline short? If so, I think you need to decide pregame (and tell us) under what circumstances and for what reasons you might do that. People discovering a deadline was moved forward when they thought it was later could reaosnably be upset with you.

2) Why should people not announce V/LA in thread? I get that you'd only count V/LA if people tell you, but you're kinda implying that there's a rule against saying V/LA in thread

3) What do you mean by "spoiler trees"?

4) You sort of imply people need to unvote before voting someone else. I'd revise language to "you MUST use the UNVOTE: TAG and their name to unvote them or use the VOTE: TAG to vote someone else. No exceptions will be counted"

mhsmith0 · Post Post #209 (isolation #41) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:54 pm

In post 207, drealmerz7 wrote:the amount of players makes it subject to change, once the game is down to 8players I think it shouldn't be longer than 10day Days, and once it is down to 5 I think it is good to put the deadline at 7days a Day, but it doesn't need to be down to the hour, I think being so strict about the hour is silly, though with the countdown thing it makes it handy to be more accurate, deadlines are a strict thing to me, ever

So you'll stick to deadlines during a day phase but will vary deadlines between day phases? If so that's fine, but I'd just as soon say something like "Day one will last 12 days. Subsequent days may be shorter. Extensions, if any, will be explicitly announced. Check your most recent VC for the most current deadline!"

mhsmith0 · Post Post #220 (isolation #42) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:05 pm

In post 211, drealmerz7 wrote:say, if at day 12 I get PMs or complaints from a majority about wanting more time, I'm open to giving them 2 more days

unless that is uncool? I think it is good moderating though to allow for flexibility for the players to do what is good for the game

It's fine to have extensions. What you don't want to do is cut a deadline short or imply to players that you're willing to do this barring very unusual circumstances.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #228 (isolation #43) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:39 pm

In post 222, drealmerz7 wrote:I could even explicitly tell everyone "lynch does not need to occur by deadline, but I will close the thread at an unspecified point anwhere from 6-14hours from when the timer runs out"

That's a nexus question, I'd suggest pming him. My understanding is it's standard to have an explicit deadline and not any kind of fuzzy one, but if it's allowed in a normal game then you can do it.

Ps nexus was def. correct that this should have been resolved before queueing; you put in a LOT of non standard stuff. Some of this is my fault for not verifying, but I'd think you've seen enough standard rule sets and pms that it's pretty surprising you've been going really non standard on so much stuff here from wincon to deadlines.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #229 (isolation #44) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:39 pm

In post 227, drealmerz7 wrote:smith, how are those 3 wincons in post 201?

Acceptable

mhsmith0 · Post Post #233 (isolation #45) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:57 pm

Sk also gets bp language, like "you will be protected from one night kill, you will not be informed if your bulletproof is used"

Rb should explicitly say he can't kill and roleblock at the same time

Otherwise ok

mhsmith0 · Post Post #236 (isolation #46) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:01 pm

And the rb can't roleblock and kill simultaneously,should be in role pm

mhsmith0 · Post Post #239 (isolation #47) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:07 pm

Ok looks good. I'd like at least one of the other two to approve it as well tho.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #240 (isolation #48) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:07 pm

Also please do an updated OP per our discussion.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #243 (isolation #49) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:13 pm

Right, just repost the OP. The wincons in pms were discussed, it's a three way tie if all die, otherwise it's whichever faction stays alive last. I suppose I'll nite that scum will be irritated if they get a majority think it's over and then lose to double NK but dems the breaks lol

mhsmith0 · Post Post #246 (isolation #50) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:18 pm

Yeah reposted. We'd also talked deadline language changes, I want to see the whole thing again

mhsmith0 · Post Post #248 (isolation #51) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:27 pm

Correct, should be more explicit. I'd suggest the la gauge I provided but feel free to propose something else.

mhsmith0 · Post Post #250 (isolation #52) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:44 pm

mhsmith0 · Post Post #251 (isolation #53) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:16 pm

Also please clarify what happens when jk and rb target each other. Presumably rb wins that, so jk protection doesn't apply, but I want to verify.